Ally Template – Hybrid Guard

Imperial Guard are an ally we haven’t really discussed in much depth but have joked about as being the best ally in nearly every case. This is unfortunately too close to the truth for comfort given we’d prefer one army to not be heads and shoulders above the rest but unfortunately Imperial Guard work very well as Allies. Why? Because the limitations upon the Fast/Heavy/Elite/HQ Force Organisation slots isn’t that huge and Imperial Guard can bring a lot to the table through a single Troops choice and still bring impressive options through the other FoC slots.

Given that Imperial Guard are Allies of Convenience with nearly every army in the game, this also means nearly every army can take advantage of this awesomeness and with either very sturdy vehicles (i.e. flyers, AV14, hiding artillery, etc.) or cheap (i.e. AV12 chimeras) the options in terms of putting them amongst foot, hybrid or mech armies isn’t really limited at all.

The basic model here therefore is very flexible in its own regard. Let’s see what this is:

 

Primaris Psyker

Platoon Command Squad w/4x Flamers

3x Infantry Platoons w/3x Autocannons, Commissar

Vendetta w/Heavy Bolter sponsons

Manticore

 

Total: 635 points

 

Not that much in terms of points but what you’re getting is pretty decent and there are literally TONS of options to make this plug-in work for whatever army you need it to. First off, you’re getting increased firepower. Even the Infantry Platoons are putting out a decent number of S3 shots and pray to any unit which steps to within 12” and gets slapped with a First Rank, Fire! Second Rank, Fire! The Manticore also adds large ordnance barrage blasts to the mix to force the enemy to spread out, smash anything which doesn’t and dig infantry out of cover. Although it can’t dig Marines out of cover, Marines in cover generally aren’t overly numerous and straight torrenting can remove them. The Vendetta is of course a flyer and all that entails with enough firepower to poke at infantry units and shred vehicles. And the Psyker just adds some nice utility with the PCS bringing a mobile flaming scoring unit or support for the blob.

And every one of these units can be changed.

The Primaris can become a Lord Commissar for stealth pants (assuming it doesn’t get re-FAQ’d) or a CCS for more orders.

The Platoons can be increased in number, given Chimeras and special weapons, given Power Axes and joined by Priests, etc. You can even bring in two Platoons. You can add special weapon squads to go into Chimeras/Vendettas. Heavy Weapon Teams for more firepower at a relatively cheap cost.

The Vendetta cannot be changed. Shut up about it J.

The Manticore has a lot of friends which are nice options as well. Many of the Russ and artillery variants are now solid options simply because of the blast rules and whilst Hydras are less awesome than they were, they still aren’t a terrible choice. It is hard to beat out the Manticore though…

And that’s still without touching Elites. Marbo makes a great disruption addition for 65 points as do a Stormtrooper unit with some meltaguns. A Psyker Battle squad provides more damage and utility and the further option of another Chimera if you’re feeling peckish. None of these squads are that expensive either.

 

What this simple plug in does is provide you with a very solid scoring option and a variety of firepower types. You have S10 ordnance, S9 on flyers, a bunch of S3 and a nice smattering of S7 which can be expanded in a lot of ways. Add in a lot of Space Marine variants are Battle Brothers with Imperial Guard and that big foot blob can get lots of USRs added to it as well as greater psychic variety *cough Divination cough*.

The concept isn't devastating as say a TH/SS bouncy ball for Tau or as obviously amazing as Necron Flyerwing but the robustness and flexibility of both the options and when it's on the table makes Imperial Guard an ally option which it is very, very hard to overlook no matter what your army is attempting to do. Other allies do other things better, there is no doubt, but this type of Guard plug-in fits in very handily without much tweaking for a lot of armies. i.e. expect to see lots of Guardsmen out there kids :).

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61 Responses to “Ally Template – Hybrid Guard”

  1. Anon says:

    "The Primaris can become a Lord Commissar for stealth pants (assuming it doesn’t get re-FAQ’d)"

    It was already FAQ'ed, camo cloak only gives +1 cover save to the model wearing it for IG, No more camo pants.

    • Anon says:

      Page 71 – Other Equipment, Camo Cloaks
      Replace the second sentence with “A model wearing a camo cloak adds +1 to its cover save”.

      • Anon2 says:

        Yep, as noted the other day… until GW figures out the difference between a paragraph and a sentence, you get Stealth AND a +1 to cover save.

  2. Craig says:

    I honestly think the reason IG are so good in this role is they can make full use of the more limited FOC slots, there are no weak slots for the IG. In particular vendettas allow good firepower from the often lacking FA slot, which is almost as good as having 2 HS slots in a lot of ways. Better if you consider the potential for taking down opposing flyers as well. This combines with their low cost, which has always been part of the basic IG concept, to make them the ideal combination for an ally – less limited by the stripped down FOC and cheap enough to take advantage of that fact.

    • Kirby says:

      Further to this – each solo slot of IG can work as a solo. Parent IG armies will often run single Dettas/Manticores for example whilst running a single Pred/Rifledread/etc isn't as permissive a practice.

  3. carldooley says:

    more than the Primaris, I'm a fan of a naked CCS with an Officer of the Fleet inside a Vendetta. While the Astropath was FAQed to not affect allies, the OotF can affect your allies (if allies of convienence) and EVERY other detachment on the board. Keeping them naked is good as well in case the vendetta gets shot down.

    Also, a pair of Leman Russes over a manticore as well (so they can turtle up).

    • Ish says:

      Why would you turtle up a Russ squadron? You pay a lot of points (relative to other Guard units) to have that mobility, you should use it or chose a different platform like the old boring but practical turret emplacements. There are bound to be edge cases where you will turtle, but its kinda odd to make that your plan out of the gate.

      • carldooley says:

        what mobility? they are heavy vehicles.
        My meta sticks to codex-ecii for games.

        • Ish says:

          "Codices," words that end in -ex are pluralized as "-ices" in most cases.

          They are indeed heavy vehicles… but you're wasting their AV14/13 and hull-mounted weapon if they aren't on the move. If they God-Emperor had meant them to be bunkers, he wouldn't have put treads on them.

          • Alastores says:

            While that is true, GW has established that the plural of their "codex" is "codexes".

            While linguistically this is incorrect, it implies a proper noun – thus non standardised – usage.

          • abusepuppy says:

            GW doesn't write the rules for the English language. The plural of "codex" is "codices," even if they pretend it's something different, just like the plural for "dwarf" is "dwarves," not "dwarfs," no matter what their Fantasy writers think.

          • Alastores says:

            Latin.

            And yes, "Codicies" is correct usage. But given they are refering to very specific items, it is acceptable linguistic practice for it to be modified.

            When the autist is less pedantic about language than the NT, there's something up.

            Incidentally, the plural of Dwarf is either Dwarves or Dwarfs. It varies quite significantly from the source matierial. It's not like "Elves" where there is only one plural.

          • Ish says:

            If GW is refering specifically to only their branded products with "Codex: Space Marine" (or whatever) as the title, then they could pluralize it as "Codexes: Space Marine," but they would need to use the capital letter. Thanks to the way English treats collective plurals and brand names. But they don't do that.

            The word is "codices," you should be able to find rules for plurals in the appendices of all good English text books (look in the indices of multiple ones if you can't find it in the first).

          • Alastores says:

            Again, no. Standard language use and correct language use are different things.

            Or would you prefer we all go around correcting the multiple grammar mistakes in each others posts?

          • carldooley says:

            gah.
            Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa

          • In GW publications they (almost?) always print it as 'codexes'. I think it might be one of those things that non-American English speakers do, or at least the British, like calling the letter 'z' "zed". Also I initially read the above suggestion as saying you should take two Leman Russes *and* a Manticore … too bad. If you could do that I would really have to start working harder on building my Manticore

          • abusepuppy says:

            No, it's actually just wrong, just like their use of "dice" as a singular noun. They are consistent about how they do it wrong, but at the end of the day it's still just wrong.

          • Alastores says:

            Do you pronounce Daemon as Demon?

            If so, you are doing it wrong, because the Daemonlogie references demons seperate to other spirits. Daemon is from the Greek for 'spirit', wheras 'demon' references a specific type of entity.

            However, 90% of the English Speaking world says "Demon". The world is consistent about how they do it wrong, but at the end of the day, it's still just wrong.

          • WestRider says:

            "Dice" as a singular is actually correct in British English. It came up when I was doing my Student Teaching in a British School, and we looked it up in one of their dictionaries.

    • Pascal says:

      where was the astropath faq'd not to affect allies? I've just read the whole IG FAq and the only mention is that 2 astropaths'/ MOf's don't stack

      • tim skawinski says:

        I second this. I've heard that Astropaths don't affect allies, but I can't find anything of the sort in the FAQ. I just downloaded it a week ago.

        • carldooley says:

          P. 7 of the rulebook FAQ
          Q: Do modifiers that apply to such things as Reserve rolls, apply to
          units from an allied detachment? (p124)
          A: No.

          • Pascal says:

            so, wierdly they do affect the main detachment:P just not themselves if they are the allied detachment.. teehee:P

          • Threadmiser says:

            You…have a point. Your point should not be there, much less any variety of valid, but there it sits and valid it appears to be. That's downright bizarre especially since, by my reading (admittedly probably flawed as it was done at 4am), the modifier isn't concerned with models so it works even if you aren't battle brothers.

          • abusepuppy says:

            Yup. Welcome to GW's wildly-inconsistent rules writing and poor comprehension of what they put in the FAQs.

          • Gorbad says:

            So, you've done it better?

  4. Stuart Lord says:

    Can I add that if you take no other tanks or flyers in your army – consider adding some or dropping the manticore – otherwise its the only target. Obvious for most, I'm sure you will tell me, but I've seen it.

    Same as if you mech right up – don't leave the guard on foot unless a) you have an aegis or b) they are only acting as vehicle screeners,

    • abusepuppy says:

      Well, yes- a template isn't absolute. But for armies that are running at least some mech elements already, this can be very good. Heck, it's perfectly legitimate to mech up the Infantry or take Veterans and such if you want to push that angle of the list.

      The fact that IG can run foot, mech, or hybrid lists with equal ease is just another reason to look to them as an ally.

    • Kirby says:

      Meching up and having the guard on foot is fine, even without the a & b restrictions. They often did it in 5th anyway, now you just need to make sure they have a 4+ cover save or expect them to die faster.

      Single flyers work with no other tanks in the army but the lack of proper terrain on all tables would make me hesitant to running just a manticore. If you know there is going to be some LoS blocking terrain out there, this isn't as big an issue.

      Regardless, that's what makes this ally option so awesome. Oh I don't have many vehicles *tweaks*. Works :)!

      • LawL LawL says:

        There was someone in the chat-box arguing that running a single Manticore for purposes of "drawing fire," or something along that line, would be a good thing.

        Really appears to be little more than 160pts down the drain, as regardless of whether or not you have 3 large-blast spewing machines of doom, or 1, the enemy will shoot to kill one of them at some point, and if you have only 1, all the more reason for them to get it over with quickly and before it can do any damage to them.

        In the case of the Allies template, I almost always run something similar, but with sprinklings of plasma, melta, or more flamers, depending on the parent list. And the Manticore is replaced by a Griffon, as who doesn't like 5/9 chance of dropping a S6 AP4 large blast EXACTLY where you want it to go?

  5. James says:

    If you have very few other tanks and/or don't have a defence line, swap the Manticore for a Leman Russ – being the only AV12 tank makes it stick out like a sore thumb, whereas the Russ with AV14 front & Av13 sides requires some dedicated hardware and effort to take out, so can more often than not sit in a corner shelling away all game!

    Lord Commissar can kill 2 birds with one stone, being your HQ and also being the commissar for a blob too – saves some points.

    Marbo is simply excellent for catching people unawares (People forget about him all the time, and it's very rare for him to not make his points back)

    Is it worth giving guard allies a shout for spreading that AP2 love? 2 chimeras full of plasma vets, along with Marbo and perhaps a Leman Russ Demolisher or a Medusa, and then a detta/chimera full of Company Command plasma.

  6. I was surprised that Stormtroopers are mentioned. I always thought of them as grossly overpriced.

    • tim skawinski says:

      Nobody likes them for some reason. They are expensive, but their ability to very reliably drop in with melta and slag a tank is quite nasty. You can't always get your chimeras full of veterans up there, so stormtroopers back you up. Granted, they aren't scoring, so that's a pretty fair reason to take Veterans instead.

    • abusepuppy says:

      They're actually not that bad- the ability to Scout in a Chimera can be fairly useful. Five of them, two Plasma (or Melta), and a Chim is 170, which isn't an amazing price but does give you a pretty flexible unit when it comes to deployment.

  7. Threadmiser says:

    IG is good for the simple enjoyment of having Marbo climb out of some poor sod's pockets and getting you "slay the warlord" and maybe even linebreaker. Rolling some heavy AV14s with Russ & friends is pretty awesome too as it takes some real work to bring them down. Flyers are good things to have, Vendettas especially so.

  8. TheTrans says:

    Well I used the below list over at a Tournament a few weeks ago and somehow managed to bloody win the thing, Using similar base lan as yours but using guard as the lead army, still similiar loadout to the allied list which I found quite funny:

    HQ (100pts)
    Company Command Squad
    Lascannon
    MoO

    Elites (65pts)
    Sly Marbo

    Troops (325pts)
    Infantry Platoon (235pts) –
    Platoon Command Squad (40pts)
    x2 Grenade Launcher
    Infantry Squad (65pts)
    Autocannon , Grenade Launcher
    Infantry Squad (65pts)
    Autocannon , Grenade Launcher
    Infantry Squad (65pts)
    Autocannon , Grenade Launcher

    Veteran Squad (90pts)
    7x Shotgun (modeled on)
    1 Lascannon

    Fast Attack (130pts)
    Vendetta (130pts)
    3 Twin-linked Lascannons

    Heavy Support (375 pts)

    Hyrdar Flack Tank (75pts)
    Heavy Bolter

    Leman Russ (150pts)
    Heavy Bolter

    Griffon Support (150pts)
    2X Griffons w/ Heavy Flamers

    Astral Claws (wovles) detachment:

    HQ (100pts)
    Rune Priest (100pts)
    Standard gear

    Troops (190pts)
    Grey Hunters Pack (190pts)
    Drop Pod , Meltagun , Meltagun,

    Heavy Support (115pts)

    Long Fangs Pack (115pts)
    Squad Leader
    M/L Longfangs x4

    Aegis Defence line w/ Quad cannon (100pts)

    Marbo made his points back no worries at all :D. The russ lost 1 HullPoint in 5 games. Didn't loose the vendetta at all. Hydra did the needed work. Blob squad sat happy in the aegis line with the Rune Priest helping out (Very hard to shift a ATSKNF squad of 3 men). Griffons performed gloriously as they always seem to. They Managed to win the last game for me, it was draw hammer, to Strike GKs where sitting on the enemy objective, he rolled a 1 and 2 on his saved :D..

  9. Sethis_II says:

    I disagree strongly with the people advocating Russes over a Manticore. Unless you play with a huge paucity of LoS blocking terrain a Manticore is simplicity itself to hide effectively behind a building or other solid obstacle. At the very least you can put it behind your Aegis (if you don't have one, why not?) and any troops manning it to get a cover save. This added to the fact that it can easily kill any vehicle outright 33% of the time (S10 Ordnance with 3 hits? Dead tank) and also does a number on anything that isn't T6 multi-wounds and only costs 140pts… Why would you ever consider anything else?

    • tim skawinski says:

      If you play at a GW store, and many people do, you won't have much LoS blocking terrain. You will get it occaisionally, but a lot of the 40k terrain tends to be ruins kits, and there are almost always windows that will get your opponent a shot at your Manticore.

      Aside from that, I would consider a demolisher in place of a Manticore for a few reasons. First the AP2 granting you +1 to damage results is quite nice, and it's more accutate. Second, you can take a weapon destroyed result and contine to be a serious pain in the ass due to your sponsons and the use of your hull mounted gun. Third, a Manticore is 140 points that doesn't add to your armor saturation if you are indeed hiding it in LoS blocking terrain. The Russ is, say, 200 points, but it is damn hard to kill, and will force your opponent to split priority that much more. In that respect, buying a Manticore is much like buying a flier, and given the choice, I'd have to go with the flier instead.

      • Anon says:

        A Naked Russ Demolisher is 5 points more than the Manticore, 140 is for a Colossus or Medusa, not sure which. The Manticore 20 points more.

        For 5 points more, I'll take the Russ.

      • Sethis_II says:

        > First the AP2 granting you +1 to damage results is quite nice, and it's more accutate.

        A 66% chance of getting double or triple the number of shots actually makes it *more* accurate, and gets you two/three bites at the damage chart apple, never mind the additional HP stripping (significant advantage). Don't forget you can always fire Direct if the opportunity presents itself, and as a Barrage Weapon when firing indirect you can snipe out characters and ignore cover saves in a way the Demolisher can't. That Commissar/Chaos Lord/Whatever getting you down? Cause 15 hits on him with a barrage pie plate and he's gone, while the Demolisher is killing grunts until the last one falls.

        > Second, you can take a weapon destroyed result and contine to be a serious pain in the ass due to your sponsons and the use of your hull mounted gun.

        Sponsons on a Russ? Eeeeh. There are many other things I'd rather spend 20pts on that don't hit on 6s every time you fire the turret. Even if you do take them, Heavy Bolters scare no-one apart from Eldar infantry.

        > Third, a Manticore is 160 (edit mine, typo first time round) points that doesn't add to your armor saturation if you are indeed hiding it in LoS blocking terrain.

        I put forward that you're not really "saturating" if the loss of 1 hull is important enough for you to worry about. Maybe in small games? But then that's when the Manticore is at its most powerful.

        Russes are fine, and in a Primary IG detachment I'd happily take them *and* a Manticore, but when you only have 1 HS slot to play with?

        • tim skawinski says:

          The Manticore is certainly better in terms of firepower, there are just reasons that you -might- want the Demolisher instead.

          I see the sponsons as insurance against Weapon Destroyed results. They're less common now, but spending the points to randomise the result away from your turret gun is worth it in my opinion. Heavy bolters don't scare anyone, but multi-meltas sure do.

          Every little bit of saturation helps. No, one less hull isn't gonig to make or break the list, but have a russ versus not having a russ is going to make a noticable difference.

          In an allied IG detachment I probably wouldn't be bringing Heavies that much anyways; I would be using the detachment to squeeze as many bodies and hulls out of it as possible.

      • Don't forget Colossus. It is amazing how surprised some of my opponents were when they realised Guard had S6 ignore cover AP3 pies. A lot of lesser players get completely thrown off as to what to do with Colossi on the table. 'Tis glorious!

        • abusepuppy says:

          The Colossus is pretty nasty against MEQs, but if those aren't the only thing you're seeing in your area it has a lot less value. Personally I would usually prefer a pair of Griffons due to them being better against xenos, better against tanks, twice as tough, having a higher maximum upside potential, and being more accurate in general.

          Not that there isn't a value in having a unit that just says "remove some models; do not roll dice, no not do anything- just remove those models."

  10. TheTrans says:

    That and the fact a maticore is actually 160….

  11. Coyote81 says:

    The posted list is almost exactly what I take to accompany my GK primary detachment. I'm still back and forth if the primaris is a better option then the CCS. 4x plasmaguns on the CCS in addition to orders, makes them a scary unit.

    • tim skawinski says:

      The 4 plasmaguns make me worried that my squad is going to melt itself. I stick to 2, and add meltas if I want more power. Carapace and FNP are just too expensive to back their saves up.

      • abusepuppy says:

        Since you can twin-link yourself a lot of the time the CCS's plasma isn't quite as deadly. I might still consider a Medic in there, though.

        • tim skawinski says:

          I'd think if you're going to take one, you might want to give them Carapace. It's 20 points, and gives you a 50% chance to pass your Gets Hot roll, while a medic is 30 and gives you a 56% chance. Also, the medic cant' carry a gun.

          Good point on the twin-linking.

          • Matt-Shadowlord says:

            The gain is far less than that though; the guardsmen already have a 33% chance to pass due to flak armour, so you are only actually gaining 17% extra chance with carapace.

            If you'd like my advice, if you want to add Guard to your regular army the first thing you need to do is learn to let go.

            If there is ever a chance to spend points on keeping the men alive or buying more guns, buy more guns.

          • abusepuppy says:

            It is generally better, yeah. The CCS are the only guys I'd be concerned about keeping alive, though, since Advisors and Orders are both worthwhile in that squad and Explosions can be pretty unkind.

          • clever handle says:

            theme of the modern military AND the imperial guard

          • tim skawinski says:

            Even so, you're gaining 17% with the carapace, and 23% with the medice. So for the points invested you're getting 0.85% for each point with the carapace, but only 0.77% for the medic, and again, the medic can't carry anything.

  12. Jasonc says:

    I still prefer the manticore as the go-to option, it usually performs pretty well. However, I could argue 2x Griffons as well; significantly more consistent both in hitting and number of shots, increased armour + hull points etc, still wounding on 2's. You lose effectiveness vs vehicles, and you lose instant death though.

  13. Scuzgob says:

    i have a horrible temptation to just have two maxed out infantry platoons as the two IG ally troop units. just for the fun of having the allies outcost the main army.

    • WestRider says:

      My current SW/IG List has Woves as the parent Army, but almost 900 out of the 1500 Points are spent on Allied Guard. And that's with only running one Platoon, which is a large part of why the Guard are the Allies.

  14. derreavatar says:

    You can make a whole platoon outflank with saga of the hunter; it can destroy cheap infantry units left behind to occupy objectives on one turn.I also take a librarian.
    If the objectives are in the centre of the table, put the blob midfield for a bloody mess, with a librarian.
    If the enemy has a deathstar deploy them on separate , disposable squads, and let the deathstar destroy them on by one, locking it in pointless assaults. Put your special characters elsewere.
    If you do a little of mathhammer, with FRFSRF& divination you can easily destroy 5 terminators per turn.
    The main treason they are so great it is because they suck- so they cost very little points and can take many boons thanks to their green alliances.
    Also , vendettas+special weapons+demo charge, marbo …. well , you're full of great ,cheap, versaitle options.

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