There is another 40K game. And it is Good.

revenantsA couple of weeks ago I bought 2 Eldar Revenant titans to use in normal pickup games, and none of my opponents minded or even raised an eyebrow. They have no reason to object -their own armies feature Warhounds, Thunderhawks, scores of Leman Russes, countless Tyrannid monstrosities,  Shadowswords and Reaver Titans, and yet the armies are balanced, the matches close right to the final moments, the game streamlined and the system tournament-ready.

It’s time to have another look at Epic Armageddon, and I’ve updated this post from 2014 with some of the new developments for this old game.

I’ll be completely upfront about this: The goal of this mini-series about Epic is to get you interested enough in Games Workshop’s other game set in the grim darkness of the 41st Century to actually give it a try. I started playing it fairly casually with some friends and it took a few games to realise that Epic is actually GW’s most strategic and tactically rewarding game.   In fact, this weekend I’ll be flying 4,000km to CanCon for a major Epic Tournament, which is about as strong a personal endorsement as anyone can give a game.

As a reader of the tactic and tournament-orientated 3++ website, you already love strategy, planning and the warmachines and creatures of GW’s dark future. You are what the industry calls pre-sold, you just didn’t realise it. I’ll be posting information about the game, some photos and battle reports and a guide to army building.

333

What is Epic?

In 2003 Games Workshop published the fourth edition of their science fiction, mass combat system, Epic Armageddon. Unlike 40K, this game usragnares 6mm scale models, allowing far larger armies to be fielded, and an alternating activation system where each player performs an action with a formation and hands initiative over to the enemy or gambles on retaining to do a second move (when retaining, orders are followed with a -1 modifier), meaning that the delay between each players actions are never long. The game relied heavily on community feedback during its development and the living rulebook was made available for free via GW’s Fanatic Games Division website.

The rules are still available for free to this day (now on GW’s website), but don’t see active development from GW now that Fanatic has been closed. Instead, development flows from the fans in the form of Net Epic Armageddon and army lists are subject to a remarkably rigorous play-testing regime in international meta-games before moving from experimental to developmental to the coveted ‘approved’ status.

 

What makes Epic so, well, epic?

Warfare on a grand scale

Even the tournament-standard sized 3000pt game could feature up to 60 Leman Russes, 5 Thunderhawks filled with devastators and tactical marines, Hierophant Bio-Titans, 144 Skorchas, or infantry and artillery on a mass-scale. To quote GW, “If you want to fight in cataclysmic conflicts that involve millions of troops and armoured vehicles, aircraft, artillery pieces and war engines with planet shattering power; then this is the game for you.”

Missions and Objectives04

Believe it or not, there is only one standard mission in Epic, and it is played in virtually every standard game. The mission offers 5 ways to win, and deciding which objectives to pursue based on your own and your opponent’s armies is a key skill.

Epic Rewards Maneuvering

Above all else. Of the 5 possible points to be scored, 4 are contingent on the positioning of your models at the end of every turn after the 2nd. Positioning is everything in this game, and breaking through scout screens and out-maneuvering the opponent’s units is often more important than trying to kill them.

Smarter Cover-rules

Let’s face it, unless the enemy is packing something unusually high powered like plasma or demolisher cannons, there has been little reason for Marines and Terminators to use cover in 40K – although it looks like this will finally change in 8th Edition!

In Epic, Cover has always had multiple effects. Firstly, as in 40K infantry can use the cover to attempt saves if it is better than their armour save; Stormtroopers with Armour 5+ would use the 4+ save from ruins and rubble, while Marines would just use their armour save.
However, there is a secondary bonus to cover in that the opponent’s shots at a unit in cover have a -1 modifier (eg a weapon that normally hits infantry on a 4+ would require a 5+). The effect is that while Marines almost always use their armour to stop shots, they are also harder to hit when obscured.

This is a simple rule that makes the effect of cover more equitable to all races and armies. In fact it’s tempting to email that to GW as a reminder they’ve written some great rules in the past.

Strategic differences between armies

Elite armies like Space Marines are more likely to choose the board edge and to go first than their opponents due to their higher Strategy Rating (5) than are slow ponderous enemies like the Imperial Guard (2). The Marines are also far more likely to carry out their orders and do as the player requests with an Initiative of 1 (by default, their orders succeed on a roll of 1+) than a Tau (by default 2+). Armies like Orks hate following orders (3+) unless it sounds fun, so pass double moving and shooting, or assaulting their opponents on a 1. Tyrannids start slow, rarely get to go first, but spawn and build up steam as the game goes on until the board becomes a carpet of horrific monstrosities and voracious creatures.
The effect is a genuine difference between armies, how they are played, and how they feel.

nids

Suppression

Epic has a simple mechanic that simulates the suppression formations suffer when they are fired upon or assaulted.
During a game the formations under your command will receive Blast markers when they come under fire, take casualties, fight in assaults, or fail initiative tests. Blast markers can be removed when a formation rallies or regroups
• A formation receives one Blast marker every time it is shot at by an enemy formation, even if no casualties are caused (placing BM is often more important than killing models)


• In addition, a formation receives one Blast marker every time a unit is destroyed, unless the rules specifically state otherwise (models like Grots die without any affect on the formation – poor guys).
• Each Blast marker suppresses one unit in the formation and stops it from shooting. Blast markers also affect a formation’s ability to carry out actions, win assaults, and rally. A formation is broken when the number of Blast markers equals the number of units in the formation, unless the rules specifically state otherwise. A broken formation has to withdraw, and is not allowed to take actions in the action phase (which basically means it can’t move or shoot).

In effect, a formation that has come under heavy fire will find it harder to carry out orders, fewer models in the unit will be able to fire weapons, and they will find it harder to win assaults. Placing blast markers, suppressing enemy formations and prepping them before assaults with other formations are absolutely key to victory in Epic.

Crossfirem5
Formations that take fire from the flank or rear are caught in a deadly crossfire, and will suffer additional casualties as troops struggle to find cover from attacks coming from an unexpected
direction. If your shooting unit can draw a line through their target up to 45cm long to another friendly formation the enemy’s armour or cover save is decreased by 1, and they suffer an extra Blast Marker for the first casualty they take.

This makes positioning, the angle of attack and use of coordinated formations extremely important, especially when dealing with units with Reinforced Armour – the mighty Leman Russ that has a 4+ Rerollable save only gets a 5+ Rerollable when the unit is being hit with crossfire. That’s the difference between requiring 4 hits to kill each tank and just 2.3, which in a tight game could be the difference between a win and a loss.

 Send a spearhead too far past enemy lines and you may find them being cut off, surrounded and cross-fired into oblivion. Send formations together in a solid central front and protect their flanks and you’ll find them far more resilient.

Supporting Fire
Both sides can call in supporting fire from other formations within 15cm during assaults. This rewards players who can play several moves (or even turns) in advance and position their units to support one another, or attackers who plan their assaults to hit from angles that offer the opponent no supporting fire.

The result is a fast paced, fluid game of maneuver, positioning, suppression, assault, destruction and objective claiming. It’s fun.

pic

Getting Started

The Rules are free!

http://www.net-armageddon.org/sites/default/files/compilations/netea_tourament_pack_2013-08-07.pdf

You can download them right now, or wait to see a few battle reports to find out if this is the sort of thing you want to get into. Fortunately the Army lists are also free, and over the last few years the 6mm model industry has burgeoned to fill whatever gaps there were in GW’s range. My own armies are a mix of Forgeworld, GW and 3rd party manufacturers. As wargaming goes, it’s fairly inexpensive.

Army lists and discussion

Tactical Command is the biggest hub for Net Epic online, so a great place to start if you want to find not just the army lists (including previews of future developmental forces), but also join the discussion around them and get advice.

Epic Armageddon Army Lists http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewforum.php?f=109

Epic Armageddon Forum http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewforum.php?f=4

Or for a gentler entry to Epic discussion, come join the conversation in to the new 3++ Epic forum http://3plusplus.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=67

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85 Responses to “There is another 40K game. And it is Good.”

  1. Scuzgob says:

    is getting a physical army an issue? GW and FW have stopped making models in this scale, and i dont see any links to alternatives. i do like how rippers have been used as huge tyranid monsters in that bug picture though.

    is that a warjack in the second image?

  2. Grus says:

    I played Epic in the 90s but sadly most of my friends got more and more into 40k when third edition hit. I've been looking for a reason to start again, might see if I can introduce some new friends into it too.

    How do you generally get models these days, you mentioned GW and Forgeworld but their Epic entries are empty or doesn't exist, is it only ebay? Any good third party recommendation?

  3. Moquan88 says:

    The reason I started 40K was the 8th edition of Fantasy, but this sounds like 6th and 7th edition. Pretty cool.
    But as is mentioned above, I´d like to know if models can still be bought somewhere.

    Looking forward to the rest!

  4. DukeM says:

    Those models are kick-ass. I did see some people play the game at the club but didn't really go over to have a look. I'm amazed human beings can paint that small, its as good as some of my WH40K models!

    Whats the secret, chinese children with tiny fingers? 🙂

    • Ish says:

      Epic miniatures are surprisingly simple to paint… Maybe not to the "Eavy Metal" team standards you'd see in White Dwarf, but for a simple-but-effective table top standard you can get a lot of mileage out of just base coating in a dominate color (red Blood Angels, olive drab Guardsmen, etc) picking out a few bits of color to "pop" (gun casings, bare skin, pauldrons, etc) in a contrasting color, and then hitting the whole mini with a sepia or black wash. Carefully apply some transfer decals (40K scale shoulder pad decals are usually perfectly sized for Epic scale banners) and presto. Rhino- and Russ-sized tanks aren't much harder to paint than the infantry.

      Titan-sized miniatures in Epic range in size from "standard 40K infantry grunt" for something small, like a Warhound, to "about the same as a Dreadnought" for the biggest ones like the Imperator. Most tend to be around "hero character Terminator" size. On the other hand, since the infantry hordes and common vehicles are so quick to paint, you can really lavish the centerpiece Titans with love.

  5. JasonP says:

    Great article! I actually OWN some epic models, I bought about 100 marines 12 predators 12 landraiders and 2 thinderhawks for about $50 from a pal who later moved so I hardly got any games.

    Are they still good in the new codex or will I need new things?

    • GlynG says:

      Yeah they would be great, sounds like you have most of a standard 3k game size army sorted. You could do with around 10 Rhinos or so as well, plus 2 or 3 Hunters (an AA variant of the Rhino). Rhinos are common and cheap, particularly if you're ok with the old plastic ones and Hunters can be converted easily enough from Rhinos with the addition of some kind of turret on top. A Warhound or two works well with Marines too, but isn't essential.

  6. @andydorman says:

    There are plenty of places you can get proxies:
    http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/webstore-did.hhttp://www.exoduswars.com/s http://www.onslaughtmini.com/ http://angelbarracks.co.uk/

    And there are a good few others if you look hard enough.

    Imperial guard in particular can often be handled with any suppliers of 6mm WWI/II miniature

    And there's always eBay!!

    • Scuzgob says:

      thanks!
      if i did start epic i'd probably go for orks, so it wouldnt be too hard to scratchbuild the tanks and stuff.
      would the Dystopian Wars tanks be a suitable size for the larger 40k vehicles, like baneblades and the like?

      • Ish says:

        Dystopian Wars is officially 1:1200 scale, whereas Epic is(was?) officially 1:300 scale… Which means that most DW units are going to look really out of place alongside Epic stuff. On the other hand, GW models have never exactly been painstakingly models, so the largest DW tanks and walkers should work if you take a bit of time to paint over or file off the most egregious scale markers (doors, hatches, etc.) I mean, everybody loves a walking battle cathedral/pagoda/capitol dome, right?

        Battletech (officially 1:285 scale) is also a good source of Epic stuff, especially if you're looking for terrain, civilian vehicles or aircraft. The `mechs themselves and more iconic units like dropships are probably too recognizable to use in the 40K `verse.

        • WestRider says:

          I actually used to go the other way, and used my Epic Infantry and Tanks in BattleTech. They fit together just fine.

        • Jimmy Zimms says:

          Dystopian Wars is a common sight in Epic games. The scales are different so the larger stuff tends to make an appearance.

          For instance, the smallest British tank, the terrier, I use for my Elysian Cyclops Demi vehicles. The largest, the Sovereign is a commonly used Leviathan command war engine.

          • Blip says:

            I use dozens of britania distopian wars tanks/artillery in my imperial guard – mainly as chimera and baskalisks Never removed any detail and to be honest much of it looks more in scale than GWs details. Plus its much cheaper ! Some good warships etc for squats too…

      • GlynG says:

        If you're interested in orks you should checkout Troublemaker Games – http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/webstore-did.h… They've run a couple of 6mm crowdfunding campaigns and have a range of 6mm models that make good proxies for orks and IG. They even have a (delayed but on sale before not too long) plastic sprue of good proxy models for orks and IG.

  7. Hey guys!

    Theres a couple of companies doing really nice proxie-models for Epic units:

    Onslaught miniatures
    Troublemaker games
    Dark Realm Miniatures
    Exodus Wars

    Are all great resources for minis. You can also find alot of second hand minis on Ebay.

  8. Aquahog says:

    The alternatives to GW in the 6mm market are indeed plentiful and in many cases equal or superior in quality.

    Please go here for the TacCom thread covering available manufacturers: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic….
    It's a bit old, but a good start.

    @Scuzgob: That is indeed a warjack. With some minor conversion work they make excellent titans.

  9. upsilonman says:

    Thankyou! This article brought a smile to my face 🙂

    Epic has always been my favourite GW game by miles. Id LOVE to see more coverage of epic in any form on 3++

  10. Jimmy Zimms says:

    With GWs retreat from 6mm a huge number of 6mm manufacturers have sprung, the leaders in the field being posted above. What’s really important to point out is just how rapidly these lines are expanding and how they are all encompassing tanks, multiple types of infantry and even great truescale (aka FW sized flyers).

    Trouble Maker Games has just completed their second very successful crowd funding campaign that brings an impressive amount of minis to their very suitable to use as guard and orcish aliens and a brand new faction containing very cult mechanicus-esque troops.

    Onslaught is very exciting as they work in a very open design process with the gaming community for lines that could work well for Dark Eldar, Bugs, and Tau.

    Lastly I’d like to note two companies that have not been mentioned yet

    -Solar Empire Marines from C&C that make the best guard special forces imo

    -dark realm miniatures who have great lines that work well as catchians and other guard subfactions

    it’s a great time to be in 6mm

    • JasonP says:

      any idea why GW arent selling the 6mm models? Surely it must have had amazing profit margins for how much plastic / resin is used.

      • Jimmy Zimms says:

        Probably the same reason the don’t make anything but the 3 core lines now. Rumors say that half the revenue they make on models comes from Space Marines alone. Anything they feel that could distract from selling that is probably marked for death.

  11. Ish says:

    Onslaught Miniatures has announced an upcoming release of Epic-scale "Sisterhood" figures. In an incredibly clever move, they've got them in standard power armor, light scout-type armor, and heavy terminator-esque armor. Plus bike squads, various tanks, and so forth. Which means it should be simple as heck to just run them as a "Counts As" Space Marines force in Epic 40k.
    http://www.onslaughtmini.com/images/previews/themhttp://www.onslaughtmini.com/images/previews/Virthttp://www.onslaughtmini.com/images/previews/Minehttp://www.onslaughtmini.com/images/previews/Athe

    Well, I know what I want for my birthday this year.

    • Grus says:

      Onslaught seems like a really cool store. What could you use those Avian dudes for in Epic, just Kroot or what? Might have to get myself a Tau army from there and then some Sisters when they drop! 🙂

      • Fredmans says:

        You could play them as Tzeentch Cultists and Mutants as well, playing the Lost and the Damned Chaos Cultist list or run a Guard list as Traitor Guards. Since unit stats are much more abstract than in 40K, Epic:A army lists are mostly about function. The standard Guards list for instance, is a Steel Legion Mechanized Infantry Force with tank and artillery support. Nothing stops you from playing and modelling them as Traitor Guards, nor Blood Axe Orks for that matter.

    • Matt-Shadowlord says:

      Those links aren't working for me, are they correct? A friend of mine would really like to start Epic Sisters.

  12. Fredmans says:

    Playing Epic is a treat. Every move count in the fight for objectives, making it tactically very rewarding. List building should primarily effect your objective strategy.

    By adding models from different manufacturers, most 40K armies are buildable, and with the help of ebay, every one is. Here are a few more 6mm sci-fi manufacturers that have some very good models for Epic.

    Brigade Models
    Microworld Games
    Ground Zero Games

  13. Sapper says:

    I can’t think of 6mm without thinking about BattleTech, which just reminds me how hard it is to find non-40k games. I like the concept, and those Sisters of Battle proxies are pretty sweet, but I’d have to pass until I could find people to play against.

  14. Nomeny says:

    It's possible to scale the game up for 40k models, although I was surprised that 6th didn't follow 5th in porting more Epic Armageddon rules into 40k. Sometimes I wonder why they didn't, because stuff like the Flyer rules and engagements make so much more sense.

    • JImmy Zimms says:

      I always thought that GW missed the boat with the new flyer rules in 6th edition. They should have leveraged the FW flyers (and expanded the range) for an air metagame. Then when things show up in the actual 40k part of the game you have to plop down the big old 28mm scale flyer representing the plane for the ground attack / air transport sorties.

  15. sirbiscuit says:

    Thanks to everyone posting links to models, I had always wondered where you get the stuff to play. Might have to check it out now.

  16. WestRider says:

    I loved Epic, great system, very elegant. I really wish I'd been able to find people to play with after I left college, so I could have justified not selling my stuff off when I lost my job. But after 10 years of it taking up room around here, and given what I was able to get for it, I couldn't really turn that down.

  17. Sethis_II says:

    No-one has mentioned that you can also play with SQUATS!!!!

  18. Will says:

    Need an article about Gothic too – one of the most fun campaigns ever was playing Gothic to make planet fall, Epic to secure sectors, and WH40K to secure objects within the sectors.

    • Ish says:

      C'mon, man, drill down deeper than that! Play WH40k to capture the objective — but make it a building/hatchway. Then play Kill Teams / Zone Mortalis to secure objectives within that structure. Then play Inquisitor to settle the final, epic duel over that obejective!

      PLAY ALL TEH GAMES!

  19. Meme B. Weedy says:

    This was another great article! While I have never played the game I have heard some say it is the best and has tight rules.

  20. I love Epic.

    I’m particularly stoked that there are rules for Dark Eldar these days, even if I have NFI how I would contrive models for them. At least I’ve got plenty of Marines and Orks for the meantime.

    I look forward to this series, and maybe convincing one of my mates to play 🙂

  21. Matt-Shadowlord says:

    The TO for Epic Cancon 2014 has posted the armies http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php?…t&am…

    Defending the Imperium:
    4 Space Marine Forces
    1 Space Wolf Incursion
    1 Salamader Marine Army
    3 Steel Legion Armies
    1 Minervan Tank Legion

    The Forces of Chaos:
    Iron Warriors
    The Emperor's Children
    Black Legion

    Battling for Battle's own Sake:
    3 Ork Infestations (All Ghazgkhull Thraka's Warhorde)

    The Implacable Alien:
    Necron

    It's a pretty even split of Imperium and their adversaries.

    For those who like stats, death from above will come in the following forms:
    6 Thunderhawks
    5 Landas
    14 Thunderbolts
    2 Marauder Bombers
    18 Fighta Bommers
    and not nearly enough Anti-Air 😀

    On the ground there are
    About 44 Land Raiders (woah)
    6 Monoliths with 6 Obelisks
    50 Leman Russ Variants
    And tanks, light vehicles, walkers and armour of almost every variety

    Fans of all things Titanic will love to see
    A Reaver Titan
    4 Hell Scourges
    Questor Scout Titan
    The Almighty ORDINATUS MEDRENGARD
    Deathwheels
    Decimators, Baneblades, Shadowswords
    Supastompas
    A Necron Warbarque
    7 Warhounds

    And lovers of Strategic Gamblers will appreciate that there are several armies fielded by generals who don't feel the need to rely on the crutch of a Supreme Commander.
    With the points saved spent on 100pts more Guns and Boys than their opponents, what could possibly go wrong? 😀

  22. Martin says:

    I have many epic models from times of yore. They are on the old style square 5 man bases. Would rebasing be required to use the current rules

    • CTG says:

      No, epic armageddon's rules for infantry bases are quite flexible and rebasing won't be neccesary.

      • The only restriction is your own personal OCD level (sorry Rafa).

        It shits the hell out of me that I have a mix of both, but I find separating formations into square and rectangular bases soothes my troubles 🙂

  23. Martin says:

    Great. Might have to read the rules, dig the figures out and give it a go. The version/s I played were great games.

  24. @inrepose says:

    If you wanted to try something that was a step up in detail over Epic you could look at Future War Commander. They have all the GW army lists (for those wanting to stick to the GW universe).

  25. Ish says:

    On a tangental note, every 40k fan owes it to themselves to track down a copy of 'Final Liberation' ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Liberation ) a video game version of Epic 40,000 that came out in 1997. Commissar Holt is the single greatest character in the entire Warhammer `verse. You have to love a man that slaps a Planetary Governor in the face within seconds of being introduced to him, who coldly orders entire companies of Astartes into suicide missions, regards Titans as a sort of uninteresting sight, and will (if you screw up) threaten the PLAYER with execution.

    Holt is the ma– *SLAP* COMMISSAR Holt.

  26. Necrofencer says:

    I like this article. Epic is pretty much 40K, except it looks better than 40K at everything 40K is trying to be (a fun game that allows you to you field massive armies in a galaxy where there is only war) and probably is too.

    It's also the proof that GW once knew about alternated activations. A shame they preferred I-go-you-go.

    • Nomeny says:

      It's less about GW than the customer. There was a huge uproar about the changes from 2nd to 3rd 40k, and Titan Legions to Epic 40k. Heck the latter killed the Epic line for many people. I don't blame the company for being risk-adverse given their experiences.

  27. Jonz says:

    Epic 40k is the best game by GW by far, in close competition with Blood Bowl. I've sold my 40K after it went bananas on the size of battles, but Epic has been with me since 1992. The latest edition is the best, the one alive today at NetEA (and featured in this article).

    Minis are bought second hand or from the many suppliers of great proxii named above: Steel Crown Productions, Dark Realm Miniatures, Troublemaker Games, Onslaught and Plasmablast.

  28. GlynG says:

    Tournament players should know that there's an active and popular EpicA tournament scene in the UK, with 12 tournaments taking place around the UK this year. They're a friendly bunch and welcoming to new and inexperienced players. See http://epic-uk.co.uk/wp/event-calendar/

    There are also multiple tournaments in Australia, the US and Europe.

  29. henafoo says:

    If people are interested in how the game plays, I've done couple of battle reports for Epic: Armageddon to youtube. Here's the latest between Lost and the Damned and Tau Empire.


    • JasonP says:

      Andy Chambers?

      • Ish says:

        Andy Chambers was one of the big names at GW for some ten years (of the 14 he worked there). Basically, anything that came out between late WH40k RT and on into early WH40k5e probably had his hand in it, if not being designed completely by him. The core rules for WH40k 2e, 3e, and 4e had him as the lead designer.
        http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Andy_Chambers

        • Suijin says:

          Don't know if he is all that. I guess his initial rewrite of Dust Tactics? was a huge fail and had to be totally redone by another. Anyone can be short on time or just have ideas that don't work out and also have great ideas at other times, so I'm not really faulting him for anything (just a bit of trivia maybe?)

          • Ish says:

            "Don't know if he is all that."

            His list of credits is right there in the link. You don't get an official title like "40k Overfiend," act as lead writer on three of six editions, and pen several dozen supplements without being a big name for the company.

            • Nomeny says:

              I figured you get a title like that by working at a small company that isn't anal about professionalism.

              • Ish says:

                Well, yes, that's pretty much thereason it was "40k Overfiend" and not "Head of Science-Fantasy Wargaming Development" but the less than serious title doesn't remove his name from the credits of a huge swathe of WH40k books.

  30. Ish says:

    Since today is the anniversary of the Defence of Rourke's Drift, I feel insipred to share this link, in case anyone feels inspired to collect an Epic-scale Praetorian Imperial Guard: https://www.baccus6mm.com/includes/products/colon

    There is a massive universe of 6mm scale "historical" miniatures out there, most of which are perfect for use as some of the more exotic Imperial Guard regiments out there. WWI and WWII minis make good Cadians and Vallhallans, Vietnam-era US or WWII ANZAC minis make good Catachans, Napoleonics and Tsarist Russians make good Mordians and Vostroyans, and Mongols make great Attalans, etc.

  31. Barsoomus says:

    Um…nice article, and I am a fan of 6mm miniature wargaming, but Epic is completely unsupported and finding suitable models will take tremendous effort. Ebay prices for real Epic minis are totally out of control. And the system isn't all that, the elevated bit of complexity definitely kills the fun. Army lists have too many redundant choices that are a forced necessity upon the player, and some of the variant lists for the same faction are completely unrelated to any fluff for the greater 40K universe. Plus, there is very little flexibility in the lists, and each list as designed must be played with a rigid play-style…any variation from it and there is no chance to win (well, as little chance as can be had with a game involving random dice rolling). All in all, the actual Epic Armageddon rules could be better, but the gaming community at large has put their stamp on them and they're not quite the same as what GW released. This may be a good thing, or a bad thing, as too many non-game designers have had their hands in the Epic cookie jar for too long, messing things up.

    • GlynG says:

      I play a lot of Epic and much of what you rite here is really inaccurate. The game has much more manoeuvre and tactics than 40k, at a more sensible scale for a battle and I find it a lot of fun to play. It's possible to pick up epic models second hand (a lot of old timers might have some) or there are several good companies selling models that make excellent proxies and veteran players are happy to help guide new players with what to buy. Even buying genuine models from eBay the total cost for an standard tournament game sized Epic army would be considerably less than for a standard sized 40k army.

      There's a lot of flexibility in the lists, more so than 40k in some ways ways. Take the Ork list for example, a maximum of one third can be spent on Gargants and Fighta-Bommerz but apart from that you could select an entire army of Stormboyz or Stompas if you wanted to, either would do worse than a more balanced army, but it would be possible. There are a few redundant units in Epic army lists, but not many, perhaps around 5% of all units I would estimate. Lists generally have multiple styles of play too – Space Marines for example work well as an airbourne air assault list, mechanised ground-based army or a drop pod list (I've seen all do well and win games). The Epic community worked with Jervis to slightly revise the rules (mainly clearing up unclear areas) several years ago but they are stable since. Lists have been rebalanced after playtesting and there's an expanded range of lists based on 40k races/factions. Being supported is over-rated IMO and the game is still doing well around the world.

    • Ish says:

      "[S]ome of the variant lists for the same faction are completely unrelated to any fluff for the greater 40K universe. "

      Like… who? The Space Marines are represented by a generic Codex Astartes List, Salamanders, and White Scars. All present and accounted for since WH40k2e. The Orks by a generic list and a Speed Freeks variant. All part of the fluff since RT. Chaos is represented by Abaddon's Black Crusade (for CSM) and Cultist (for traitorous, squishy humans). Eldar have two craftworlds. Dark Eldar are light raiders. Tyranids just want to eat stuff.

      The Imperial Guard is represented by a generic, combined arms list; an armoured battlegroup list (Minervan Tank Legion); a static defence list (Baran Siegemasters); and a siegebreaking unit (Kreig). All of which have been parts of the Imperial Army's / Imperial Guard's modus operendi since RT. The individially named regiments have all been in the fluff since at least Codex: Armageddon during WH40k3e…

      Not to mention, as with every other part of the hobby, you're encouraged to slap your own paint schemes on the models and come up with your OWN fluff.

  32. tjkopena says:

    Unfortunately it seems their catalog has many missing pictures these days, but Ground Zero Games is another well known source of 6mm figs that could work: http://shop.groundzerogames.co.uk/

  33. Hulksmash says:

    Just figured I'd toss in on this but I'm a huge Epic nut. And recently got back into it enough that I'm painting an army or two myself right now and commissioned 3 other armies out so I can start to build a local community for it.

    Regarding models you can basically get marines & orks no problem and dirt cheap on ebay. Eldar are a little harder to find but not by much. For chaos there are a bunch on ebay but I'd honestly just recommend using basic marine models or waiting for the "sisters" that will make excellent counts-as from Onslaught.

    Dystopian Wars stuff is in pretty solid scale. The "medium" british tank is slightly longer but almost all other dimensions are perfect when compared to a Chimera and most of the other tanks are similarly in-line. And they've got great stuff for super heavies for orks, ig, and even mechanicus.

  34. Hulksmash says:

    (Continued)

    Onslaught makes some awesome stuff (bought a bunch of nids from them and will likely build a Tau army now that it's all out). Necrons & Squats from Exodus Wars and even IG if you want as they have an insanely large range.

    When all is said and done you can generally get in at around 3k points for $100 bucks if you careful. That's pretty much a steal and they paint super quick.

    Just figured I'd throw in. I loves me some Epic.

  35. Creeping Darkness says:

    So, on a note of trivia, it appears that the average Epic army is restricted to 1/3 of its points in titans.

    Which means that you can now have a higher proportion of your 40k army made up of titans than in your epic army. 8(

    • Ish says:

      This is true, to a certain extant, although some lists the allotment is 25% or even 0% (Barran Siegemasters, because Titans don't do static defence) or as high as 100% (War Gryphons Titan Legion, because… duh.) On the other hand, when you look at a WH40k army list, while you will always need to have one HQ and two Troops. You can spend as much of your remaining points on anything you've got FoC slots for… This doesn't mean it is a /good idea/.

      Yes, yes, you can squeeze a 900-point Eldar Titan into a 1500 point game. Good luck winning when the twelve Dire Avengers are dead and you've got nothing left to score with.

  36. Creeping Darkness says:

    Oh, I agree that its not a good idea. Its a stupid idea. Really, they should have called Escalation "just go and play epic already".

    Sidenote: when will the first FoC swapping titan turn up? Mounted warlord on titan makes it HQ? Take titan troops? Heck, maybe there'll be a 'Revenant Titan Scouting force' dataslate that lets you take two of 'em as troops – and nothing else in an 1800 pt army. I'd have called BS a few months ago… but now, who can say never?

    • Ish says:

      Two Titams and nothing else in your army? Even if that became legal, it's dumb… I can legally field nothing but Leman Russ tanks in my Armored Battle Group. But I don't, because I want to win games. Vehicles cannot claim Objectives.

  37. james F says:

    can these be played with 15mm models?

    • Jimmy Zimms says:

      Sure. The stand is really representative of a squad of troops somewhere close to where your stand is in the board. The size of the model is somewhat up yo you, within reason, with the size of the base being important. For instance, while uncommon, I could slap down 6 Marines from 40k to represent the 6 stands of a tactical squad. The bases are close enough in area to work in a friendly game (I wouldn’t try that in a tournament however :)). Vehicles are harder to do that with as the scale gets blown out but the point is that the rules work on squads and formations and the on table representation is less important.

      Logically the inverseis true too. I hear there’s plenty people using 6 and 10 mm fantasy figures with Kings of War rules which are generally made for 28mm. As ling as both sides are keeping to relative area for like units then the modeling to advantage is moot as booth sides balance out.

  38. eron says:

    3rd edition ruined the game for me, and the radical increase in price that cam along with it ruined it for my friends.

    Bummer too, I have an entire SM chapter, a 22 titian legion with 4 companies of infantry and tanks and a separate IG regiment. something like 36,000 points. My best friend has 20,000 points of Orks.

    We literally ran a week long battle representing an entire Armageddon theater of war on 2 10×6 tables (each one had 2 sets of terrain) God those were good days

  39. pedro says:

    sorry for necro posting, but can someone tell me the difference between "Net epic Armageddon" (http://www.net-armageddon.org) and "Net Epic Gold" ( http://www.netepic.org/ ) ?

    • Jimmy Zimms says:

      Ehhhg sorry to necro the necro but…

      Pedro,

      NetEpic GOLD is a derivative game based largely on the SM aka Epic 2nd Edition rules. It basically is 2nd edition on steroids and a great continuation of the game. The materials and publications are all clean-room versions and of professional quality.

      NetEA is a group/process involved in building balanced tournament ready lists for use with the Epic Armageddon game (4th edition) for forces never officially produced by GW (e.g. DKoK, Elysians, Sisters of Battle, etc). Unlike NetEpic, it is not involved in changing the core game rules though it does produce a lengthy and well managed FAQ and Tournament Pack helping to cover the published rules and handle some of the fiddly/ugly bits. The "organization", and I loosely use the term, originally drew heavily on the individuals involved in the official play testers involved in the 4th edition development but few of them are actively involved at this time.

  40. Guest says:

    So where is the What's Wrong With Epic article?

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