First Look: 7th Edition Rule Changes

the first sentences>
Welp, 7E is out and I’ve got my copy. Time to go through the book and look at what has changed. I’m a bit pressed for time tonight so I’m not going to give a lot of my actual thoughts on what these changes mean, but there will be plenty of that to come.

Line of Sight is now traced from one model’s body to another model’s- no more drawing from the eyes/head. Sort of.

“Start of the turn” is explicitly before the Movement phase occurs; “end of turn” is explicitly after the Assault phase.

Coherency, as several others have noted, is now 6″ vertically at all times (not just in ruins.)

If you generate all your powers from one discipline you get the Primaris automatically, but if you gain a power later from another discipline, you’ll lose that Primaris. Chaos Marines/Daemons always know the primaris from their god’s discipline.

Force is not a discipline and doesn’t count for psychic focus, etc. It is, however, a Blessing and can be negated, etc, as normal.

Warp Charge counts all units on the table, including those in transports. The psychic phase ends immediately if the active player runs out of warp charge.

You can only ever manifest psychic powers on your own turn. Kinda breaks a bunch of the Blood Angels/Grey Knights powers?

Psyker units can only attempt to manifest a particular power once. Text is a little ambiguous what this means, though; if there are multiple psyker models within a unit (that can each manifest separately, as opposed to a Brotherhood) maybe they can each do their own thing? If unit = unit in the normal sense, though, that implies that powers are “shared” amongst a unit, so you could choose to have a unit of Farseer + Warlocks manifest one of the Farseer’s powers through a Warlock. I’m thinking that’s not how it works.

Deny the Witch is on 6s unless you have a bonus. Shutting down powers is really, really hard. Casting them is harder too, though.

Can’t cast anything but Witchfires out of a transport.

Perils only happens on natural double (or more) sixes. Currently there’s no way to get modifiers, but could eventually be relevant.

Perils is more dangerous than before, at least by a bit. Still causes a wound most of the time (but on 5/6 you can make a Ld test to dodge it.) 4+ on the table ONLY causes a wound, so not all that dangerous. 1/2 are potentially pretty bad, with 2 actually being the worst- no roll to avoid it, and for low-Mastery psykers it can render them useless for the remainder of the game.

Psychic Pilot explicitly gives a bonus to Deny rolls.

Psychic Hood is 12″ range now, otherwise does the same thing.

Blessings don’t stack unless specifically stated.

Conjurations bring the unit in via Deep Strike, so no movement/assault. Mishapping lets you place them anywhere you want on the subsequent turn, though. The conjured unit generates powers/abilities immediately as appropriate, but can’t cast conjurations of its own that turn. They’re scoring. Conjured Daemons can always take an Icon/Insturment/Champion for free if you have the appropriate model available.

Powers last from one psychic phase to another, unless otherwise noted, so Blessings will never help you on your first movement phase. Interesting.

Maledictions don’t have the same “never culmulative” text that Blessings do, but are otherwise worded similarly (which implies they probably don’t stack.) Still can’t go below 1 in anything.

You can cast as many Witchfires as you want and still shoot, and can target anything you want.

Beams don’t reduce in strength anymore for multiple models? Pretty sure that was a thing previously.

Focused Witchfires get to choose their target if you roll more successes than you needed to cast the power. This is huge, as it means that the previously-unreliable targeting aspect of them is now actually quite accurate. They otherwise hit the nearest model, which is still useful.

Novas hit FMCs/flyers.

Shooting is resolved one weapon at a time now, but you can still only fire one gun unless otherwise noted. Interestingly, different fire modes are counted as different weapons for this purpose. The limitation on firing one gun is no longer specific to the shooting phase.

Snap Shots are always BS1, unless specifically stated otherwise or modified by a rule that states otherwise.

If models are equidistant from the shooter, the owner chooses which to remove.

Since weapons are resolved one at a time, it’s possible to put your shorter-ranged guns out of range. Pick your order carefully.

Models that Go to ground can’t fire overwatch. That’s a pretty big deal.

Cover is always 5+ unless specified otherwise.

Ordnance weapons can never fire Snap Shots. Nonvehicle models that shoot an Ordnance weapon can’t charge or fire other guns.

FMCs can theoretically drop bombs now. Huh.

Primary weapons with Armorbane roll 3d6 and pick the two highest. Nice little fix there.

You’re allowed to charge things you can’t hurt, explicitly so.

Charging through terrain is -2″. This can cause you to fail a 1″ charge.

Pile in during assaults is slightly different. Functionally pretty similar, though.

Monstrous Creatures can never Go to Ground.

FMCs that Deep Strike are always considered to be Swooping.

Grounded tests are only on unsaved wounds, and are at the end of the phase. You can’t charge if you went into Glide mode on your own turn, but you can if forced by a Grounding test.

Vehicles are allowed to make Snap Shots with ordnance weapons.

When Immobilized, flyers crash on a 1/2 and otherwise count it as Stunned.

Exploding vehicles no longer leave craters. Wrecked vehicles are not dangerous terrain (though they’re still difficult.)

Vehicles are allowed cover saves against weapons that inflict damage results, but don’t roll on the damage table- specifically including Graviton weapons.

Stationary vehicles are still treated as WS1, though Immobilized ones are not.

If a vehicle suffers a damage result that doesn’t kill it, embarked units have to make a Ld test at the end of the phase or be only able to fire snap shots.

Damage from vehicle explosions on the inside is allocated randomly. Fucking random allocation.

If a transport is destroyed by a shooting attack, ANY unit that shot the transport is allowed to charge the disembarked squad.

Moving Flat Out while zooming gives you 12″-24″ of distance.

You can’t disembark from a chariot, period. Coming back to life if you were mounted on a chariot brings back your chariot with 1HP. When a Chariot is shot at, the owner gets to choose whether the wounds hit the chariot itself or the embarked model (except for blasts/templates, which always hit the vehicle.) Skimmer chariots don’t need to take Dangerous tests for charging, and chariots only take a glancing hit from dangerous tests. Chariots (or more specifically their riders) fight like infantry models and the chariot can sweep, pile in, etc, as normal. When fighting against a chariot, you have to resolve all of your attacks against either the rider or the vehicle- you can’t split them. You use the WS of the rider to hit it, and grenades can only be used on the vehicle. Hits against the vehicle are always resolved on front armor in CC.

Walkers no longer get a free pivot in the shooting phase. They do have the Hammer of Wrath rule, though.

Ramming does a base damage equal to half the armor facing of the vehicle, +1 for being a tank, +2 fr being heavy/superheavy- speed no longer matters (though you must go as fast as possible.)

Dozer Blades add +1 to your effective armor value when ramming.

Wounds from a challenge spill over into the unit, and wounds from outside the challenge can spill “into” the challenge (but only after all other models have been killed.)

Area terrain as a thing is gone, but many of its functions still exist. For example, ruins provide a 4+ cover save regardless of obscurement.

Craters are 6+ cover, regardless of obscurement, and give +2 when going to ground.

A model that fires a Gun emplacement can’t fire any other weapons.

Buildings have HP now. 3/4/5 for small/medium/large. Jump and jet pack infantry can get into buildings. Buildings are explicitly treated like vehicles except where noted otherwise. Units on the battlements of a building that Collapses don’t have to get off; those on a Detonating building get a free 6″ move to place themselves legally.

Gun Emplacements placed on buildings count only as Emplaced Weapons and can’t be destroyed by shooting at them directly.

Unbound armies are stupid. really, really stupid. They’re allowed to take Formations (and gain their benefits normally) if they want.

Whatever detachment contains your Warlord is your primary detachment, but otherwise it can be any of them. In an Unbound army, all models from the same faction as your Warlord benefit from their trait.

You can take any number of detachments in an army, including Allied detachments. “Combined Arms Detachment” is the general name for the old FoC chart, which includes one fortification and one Lord of War. A CAD can reroll its warlord trait and benefits from Objective Secured; allied detachments get Objective Secured, in both cases for Troop models only. Note this applies to dedicated transports for troops.

Warlords can be non-character models, but if they are, they do not get a warlord trait.

The warlord tables are mostly the same, but slightly cleaned up. Strategic is really, really good now.

Unbound armies still need to follow the rules for differing ally relationships. Battle brothers can embark on each others’ transports now. Desperate Allies don’t cause planes to crash anymore, but are scoring. Come the Apocalypse are like Desperate, but can’t be deployed within 12″ to start.

Fortifications are set up with the rest of the army during deployment.

Winner of the roll-off picks whether to deploy first or second, and then both players do so. Whoever deployed first then chooses whether to take the first or second turn. This… is a pretty big change.

Conceding is now actually in the rules, and results in a crushing victory for the continuing player.

Only scoring units can claim Linebreaker. If both players kill a unit at the same time, they both get First blood.

The roll-off to place objectives is done before choosing table sides or deployment types (except in Emperor’s Will) and is separate from the roll-off to pick sides, etc. Objectives can be on top of, but not inside of, buildings.

Swooping/zooming units don’t score. Nonscoring units can’t contest objectives.

Sabotaged objectives now cause d6 hits to units in 3″, rather than the large blast marker. Grav Wave Generator now subtracts two from charge rolls, and is cumulative with terrain.

Night Fighting is ignored if neither player wants to use it. It simply gives the Stealth rule to all units.

There is no limit to the number of units you can place in reserve, though if you have no models on the table you will still lose at the end of a game turn. Units from reserve can manifest psychic powers as they please.

You can’t roll the same Tactical Objective more than once during a game. Maelstrom of War missions are optional, and only they use the Tactical Objectives. You generate tactical Objectives at the beginning of your turn, depending on the mission.

Scouring and Big Guns still give VP for killing the requisite unit types, but no longer have anything else special about that type.

The Relic is now scored like any other objective and can only be passed once per turn. Vehicles can never pick up the Relic.

The Maelstrom missions are… interesting. Above and beyond the other stuff here, they’re gonna get a post all their own.

ATSKNF no longer gives the free 3″ move for regrouping.

Blind can only cause one test per phase.

Barrage weapons can only fire at targets inside their minimum range by firing directly.

Destroyer weapons always cause no effect on a result of ‘1’. 2-5 cause d3 damage (HP or wounds) and allow cover/invulnerable save as usual. 6 is the same as before and no saves of any kind can be taken, although special rules other than FNP can still be taken as normal. Destroyer weapons count as S10 for purposes of Instant Death (sorry, harpy/DP, no more dodging that bullet.)

Graviton weapons do nothing to buildings.

Hammer of Wrath is resolved against the armor facing you hit.

ICs can never join a unit that contains a monstrous creature of vehicle. They are, however, allowed to join units that consist of a single model.

Infiltrators and Scouts can never charge on their first turn, even if you went second.

Poisoned weapons only grant a reroll on wounds if your Strength is HIGHER than the toughness of the model you are wounding.

Precision Shots are only on sixes.

Rampage doesn’t work when multicharging.

Skyfire no longer allows full-BS shots at ground targets if you have the Interceptor rule.

Smash Attack is now only a single attack, not half your normal number.

Sniper weapons are no longer Rending against vehicles and merely count as S4.

Strikedown doesn’t lower the initiative values of affected models anymore.

Supersonic doesn’t prevent you from entering Hover mode.

You can use Grenades against Gun Emplacements.

Defensive grenades can be throw as S1 Blind Blast weapons. They don’t give Stealth at close range.

Like the missions, the psychic powers deserve an article all their own. (Also, we need to find out who can actually use what tables before they mean much- remember, in 6E a lot of models from a faction didn’t have access to all of that faction’s psychic disciplines.)

ADDENDUMS:

Sniper Rifles are not Pinning.

Swarms are allowed to score. So are units inside vehicles/buildings.

Swarms have to take wounds on already-wounded models if they are tied for closest.

Buildings can count for First Blood.

Linebreaker is just within 12″ of the enemy board edge, not inside their deployment zone.

Rerolls for having guys not in a challenge are gone (but now wounds can go into the challenge, so…)

Artillery units that fall back from a combat are Swept automatically if the enemy is capable of doing so.

Immobile units must be deployed on the board (unless they have Deep Strike) or they are counted as destroyed.

Jet Packs that assault are treated like their normal unit type (and thus may be slowed by terrain, etc.)

FMCs can Jink even while in Glide mode.

Immobilized vehicles can still Jink.

Explosions are S4 on the outside of the transport as well.

Models disembarked from a destroyed flyer land where it was originally positioned, not where the blast marker came down.

You can’t assault from one part of a multi-part building into another.

Grenades can’t be tossed in through the window of a building, nor onto the battlements.

Fortifications can ONLY be taken if you are using Stronghold Assault (or another book containing them.)

Fortifications can only be deployed into your deployment zone, not your table half.

Characters do not automatically have the ability to make Precision shots/attacks.

Overall Thoughts
7E resembles 6E a lot in many ways- the basic rules haven’t changed all that much, but the way you build armies and play missions has, and those things are absolutely critical to the game. The errata will be very telling here, so we’ll have to see how it pans out, but on the surface of things Eldar and Unbound armies will dominate gameplay pretty heavily, bar major shifts in things.

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...
Both comments and pings are currently closed.

199 Responses to “First Look: 7th Edition Rule Changes”

  1. LordDrakon says:

    Really I think loyalist got a huge buff, scoring drop pods motherfuckers!

    • wellspokenman says:

      I wouldn't be surprised if that got FAQ'd at some point, but it is useful. Getting to put ICs from your allies in that drop pod is a bigger buff, IMO. Ministorum Priests, Rune Priests, interrogator Chaplains, or a Dark Angels Librarian with a Power Field Generator can ride along with your boys now. That's a big deal.

      • abusepuppy says:

        The thing is, it's not just Drop Pods. Wave Serpents, Rhinos, all that shit is scoring now- it's actually a pretty major boost to troop transports. I'm interesting in seeing how it pans out.

        • Innocent says:

          Don't forget Black Templar Land Raiders

          • Trickstick says:

            My Armoured Battle Group no longer has a scoring problem. Russes with "objective secured" should be fun.

        • wellspokenman says:

          I agree that for the other transports it is huge, but not so much for pods. Those Drop Pods are going to scatter most of the time, and if it scatters more than 3 inches, wihich it will also do most of the time, that Drop Pod isn't doing much for you. Since they can't land on other models, it's pretty easy to block that tactic inside the deployment zone as well.

  2. Desc440 says:

    Why do you think Eldar will dominate? They got some pretty bad nerfs: new jink rules seriously fucks with their jetbikes and wave serpent's survivability or firepower, and now you at least get a chance to block their bullshit reroll every save power.

    As for Unbound, I haven't heard a single person seriously consider allowing Unbound armies unless its a previously agreed-upon game, much like superheavies.

    • abusepuppy says:

      Jetbikes don't care about Jink because their shooting is generally meaningless. They thus can get a 4+ anytime they need it, which is nice. Serpents don't have auto-saves, but they can Jink on the first turn of the game if needed and it's pretty easy for them ot just hide behind terrain. (Remember, Holofields applies to ANY cover save.)

      Realistically, if the Eldar player throws 5-8 dice at Fortune, you're not going ot be able to shut it down. it's theoretically possible, but not something you should ever expect.

      Above and beyond that, Eldar relics are EXTREMELY strong with the current psychic powers- Ghosthelms let them largely shrug off Perils and the Stone of Anlathan lets them consistently cast WC2/3 spells with a lot fewer dice. Moreover, Telepathy is significantly stronger now (with Invisibility forcing snap shots and Psychic Shriek being 18"), which gives them a backup plan if Fortune fails or isn't rolled. They also can make good use of the Maelific powers where many other races cannot so easily, and Shrouding applying to Serpents can be absolutely insane. The ability to take a third or fourth Farseer to guarantee Fortune is also a major boon.

      Basically, Eldar benefit a lot from most of the changes (stronger scoring troop transports being a major one), don't lose out on any of the big nerfs, and are in an excellent position to dominate the psychic phase- and Tyranids, one of their main nemises, no longer affects them as badly (until there's an FAQ maybe.)

      • Punchymango says:

        The game has come full circle: we're back to Eldar using their psy powers and the way the rules interact with skimmers to make their grav tanks obnoxiously hard to kill, and making a bunch of last-turn moves to contest or claim objectives. As it was in the old days.

      • Gandasch says:

        I think it's probably too early to discuss strengths and weaknesses of each Codex regarding the psychic phase. Codex-specific psychic powers and items will most likely get an update. However, there's a good chance Eldar will turn out to be the strongest faction in 7th as well.

      • Mr darkness says:

        I don't think holofields ill work other first turn. Don't they work only if the serpent moved ithe previous turn.

  3. Brakhal says:

    Hell, toxin sacs get nerfed! They clearly don't want 'nids to be anything but shooty…

    • Tetrisphreak says:

      It's just one less reason to take adrenal glands with toxin sacs on little bugs. It still helps the big bugs most of the time.

    • Threadmiser says:

      That same bit also punches DE right in the jimmies.

  4. htmLord says:

    Interesting note for the Allied Detachment rules – everyone is saying you can ally with yourself, but actually:

    Allied Detachment
    Restrictions
    All units chosen must have a different Faction to any of the units in your Primary Detachment (or no Faction).

    You can take multiple Combined Arms detachments of the same codex, but you can't take an Allied Detachment from the same codex as your Primary – this specifically includes Supplements, so no Tau with Farsight allies, though you could just choose a Tau Combined Arms with a Farsight Combined Arms

    (pages 122 and 118 for references)

    • wellspokenman says:

      If you want 2 detatchments then you have to take 4 troops. I can live with that. Supposedly the FAQs are going to make some things restricted to just one of the detatchments though. For example, taking Belial will make Deathwing troops only for his detachment.

      • abusepuppy says:

        I could be wrong, but I believe that is already the case. Belial and the CSM/DA characters all specify their own primary detachments, don't they?

        • wellspokenman says:

          No, you are right. An FOC swap was a bad example. Since I can't remember where I heard the rumor, I'll just shut up now.

    • Avatar says:

      In a sense, though, this is significantly better than being able to ally with yourself. For the cost of taking one extra troop unit, you get 3 extra HS, FA, and EL slots (and a buttload of Troop slots), and an extra HQ slot too. And if you want even MORE spam of something, you can take three combined arms detachments and put 6 HQs on the table… though as you guys note below, some FOC swaps and special rules are limited to their own detachment.

      So yeah, six helldrakes while still not taking an Unbound army. Eep. Not that the turkey didn't catch something of a nerf with the Vector Strike change, but now it can flamer my orks directly inside their transports…

      • Kirby says:

        Also, I imagine that they are counting supplement books as different factions.

        So Tau + Farsight, Eldar + Iyanden, SM + Rakuun, etc. will be fine (when Tournaments restrict you to one FoC).

        • Arc_Light says:

          "In the case of Codex Supplements, the Faction of all the units described in that publication is the same as the codex it's a supplement of."

          • Kirby says:

            Ta, pg 118 for everyone else (bottm left para).

            What this means then, as I imagine most tournaments will rule that you may only have one FoC, we're back to just a FoC + Ally FoC (as I imagine tournaments will continue to keep this concept).

            Interesting *ponders*.

            Now we need to see if the general consensus is to restrict allies or not (i.e. only BB have Objective Secured). Oh the fact that we need to talk about this immediately after an edition is published <3.

  5. rexscarlet says:

    Conceding is part of the rules, SEE, 7e did fix 40K after all, lol…
    .
    Not playing has always been a part of the game, but now the fromage-a-licious-players can gloat that you conceded, rofl…

    • abusepuppy says:

      Well, I've seen some tournaments rule a variety of different ways in terms of how to handle concessions. 7E at least gives a consistent standard for it (it counts as a major victory and is legal under the rules.)

      • rexscarlet says:

        yes, I agree, at least now it is in writing.
        .
        I have seen players friends conceed games at tournaments to further each other, so, any rules are are a good thing.

  6. daboarder says:

    A note on deny the witch

    "For a Deny the Witch test to be successful, you need to nullify all of the warp charge points successfully harnessed by the psyker when he passed his test."

    So stopping just enough WCs to prevent successful casting doesnt appear to be enough. You need to roll a 6 for EVERY WC generated or none of them are cancelled.

    yeah good frakking luck EVER stopping blessings of summonings

    • abusepuppy says:

      Pretty much. Denying is actually really, really hard most of the time.

    • TheWolfsLunch says:

      Just played a game today where I could hardly roll above 4 for psychic tests, and due to being Wolves/GK vs GK, we both had an ample amount of dispel dice available, and due to my failings, when it came time for a crux spell he could just roll all of his dispel dice with no worries.

      • Gandasch says:

        I also did a test game with the new rules for the psychic phase. If you don't have any fancy wargear or reroll abilities, casting powers requiring two Warp Charges is really unreliable, let alone three, no matter how many dice you have in your pool. The odds of rolling a double 6 are actually quite good if you use 5 dice or more. I fried two psykers in one game and blew up five other dudes who were in a unit with one of the unlucky psykers. On average I had one perils per turn, and my opponent didn't have to worry at all about denying on some turns. This was only one game, but I have a feeling the new rules will really limit the use of psychic powers, at least for some armies.

        • Alastores says:

          You know the power still works if you peril?

          • Gandasch says:

            Powers still work if you peril, but if the target of the power is your psyker and he blows his head off while casting, the power's gone as well. By unreliable I meant that you now have a much better chance of killing your psykers early in the game which means you might not have anybody to cast powers later in the game, depending on how many psykers your Codex allows you to field.

        • Tarrasq says:

          The chance of perils is just under 20% with 5 dice. At 7 it’s around 33%. Also keep in mind that perils means a success on WC 1 & 2 powers, and that about 30.5% of the time (with LD 10. 27.7% for LD9) you don’t even take the wound.

          So it’s actually closer to 14% chance to have a negative perils effect with 5 dice and 23% with 7.

          As far as denying goes, assuming you can match the dice, deny on 6s, and they pass on a 4+ you have 1/3 the chance of a successful cast to deny. A 5+, say with a friendly psyker involved, that improves to 2/3 the chance of a successful cast.

          • Gandasch says:

            The chance to get Perils in 6th was 5%, so in 7th Edition the odds to peril are significantly higher if you try to cast WC 2/3 powers. That means you'll lose significantly more psykers in the course of a game due to Perils compared to 6th Edition which limits your options in late game turns.

            The winners of the new Psychic Phase are the low Ld psykers like the Astropath if they can get a good WC 1 power to cast. With two dice you have a 75% of succeeding (previously 58% with Ld7, or 72% with Ld8) with only a 3% chance of Perils.

  7. onecrazymojo says:

    Template weapons now also cause d6 hits against units inside transports.

    Grav guns still ignore vehicle invuln saves.

    Psychic hood is worded oddly, so a possible interpretation is that the psyker with the hood counts as being in an enemy unit getting a blessing, therefore allowing boosts to the deny roll.

    Single model ldr checks are cleared up. No more priests using a commisar for easier hymns.

    You sure about the 1 weapon rule for shooting? The rule I am looking at still says shooting phase.

    • wellspokenman says:

      So you can get a cover save against a Gravitron weapon, but not an invuln save. Whatever.

    • abusepuppy says:

      Grav ignoring invuln is probably a FAQ issue. It's pretty clear what the intent was with other saves.

      I don't buy the Hood for shutting down Blessings. Sounds really dodgy.

      The one gun thing is basically a change in that it no longer says "in the shooting phase" as it did last edition, so MCs/battlesuits/etc don't really have a good argument for firing multiple guns on Overwatch or Intercept. Where are you seeing otherwise?

      • onecrazymojo says:

        Agreed. Just noting the miss in RAW. But ye, gw did a better job of writing the rules this go around, both in explicit RAW, and in making the intent clearer in cases RAW is fuzzy (for the most part).

        I don’t think it is the intent, but it is one of the fuzzy rules (infiltrate being the other). Hoods say if a unit (not indication of friend/foe- just a unit) is the target of an enemy power, then a friendly hood owner can count as being in the unit. The issue is lack of clarity on who the subject of the paragraph is. If the subject is the target unit, then it doesn’t work since the hood is not a friendly model. But if the subject is the players or their armies, then it does work the way I noted.

        Weapons section, pg41. More than one weapon:
        “Unless otherwise stated, if a model has more than one shooting weapon, he must choose which one to shoot – he cannot fire both in the same Shooting phase.”

        • abusepuppy says:

          However, also keep in mind p.31:

          "Typically, a model can only fire a single weapon in the same phase, although some models… can fire more."

          Since none of the allowances for firing multiple weapons specifically exempt models from this restriction (or at least not the MC ability nor Multitrackers), this means only one weapon can be fired on Overwatch or Interceptor I believe.

          • onecrazymojo says:

            Mm, yes. Didn’t see that one. The wording on that paragraph is really loose, though. Like, more of a remainder than an actual rule. It also offhandedly states (in the same loose manner), that vehicles and MCs can fire more than once. So I can see people interpreting it to mean that vehicles and MCs being explicity granted the ability to fire more than once outside of the shooting phase, or that the rule is so vague and loose as to not provide any real ground for a discussion.

            • abusepuppy says:

              The problem is that there are several other "reminders" that completely change the rules.

          • Alastores says:

            Doesn't that mean that things like the Quad Gun are rather bizarre? Multiple guns specifically designed as an Interceptor Weapon, but only half of the gun array can actually fire that way?

    • Jason K says:

      Template weapons only cause the additional hits if you hit the buildings fire port or open topped just to clarify. 🙂

    • abusepuppy says:

      After reading over the Psychic Hood rules again, I will point out that it specifies "a friendly unit" in its rules, which shuts down the possibility of using it against Blessings (as the opponent's models are obviously never friendly units.)

      • onecrazymojo says:

        Right. That was my point earlier. The rule isn’t clear on who the subject of the paragraph is. The sneaky way is to read it that the subject is the owning player or their army. So in that case, an enemy power (other player’s model) targets a unit that is within 12in of a friendly psyker with hood (your model).

        I don’t see it as a good way to read it, as I originally noted. Just that I foresee it becoming an argument for players trying to sneak in a way to help combat certain powers and lists. Personally, I think it was clear the intent is that the unit being targeted is the subject.

  8. Arson Fire says:

    Battle-Forged honestly isn't much better than Unbound.
    It just means that if you want those three wraith knights in your tyranid list, you get taxed a cheap eldar HQ and two min sized troops choices.

    • Almost Mercury says:

      That and they don't like to hug.

      But, I was wondering the same thing. Being able to take Come the Apocolypse allies really does open up your unit composition. Getting Objective Secured AND taking *almost* whichever models you like seems powerful.

  9. Matt says:

    The skyfire/interceptor rule changes a few of the FW units.
    Contemptor dreads now have to move if they want to fire at ground targets, as they gain skyfire/interceptor if they stay still. Saber platforms get the nerf, too.

  10. Dakka'th says:

    "Ordnance weapons can never fire Snap Shots. Nonvehicle models that shoot an Ordnance weapon can't charge or fire other guns."

    "Vehicles are allowed to make Snap Shots with ordnance weapons."

    So, contradiction?

    • Karvala says:

      page 13 – insert 'Basic versus Advanced'

      • Dakka'th says:

        They both seem equally specific to me

        • Karvala says:

          "ordnance can never…." basic rule on ordnance weapons with general applicability
          "vehicles are allowed to make snap shots with ordnance weapons" rule for a specific case

    • Almost Mercury says:

      Not really. But the elegant solution is to include the vehicle rules in the first description, instead of leaving it to be cleaned up in the vehicle descriptions.

    • abusepuppy says:

      Yeah, it's awkward, but presumably the vehicle rules, which are a modification of the normal rules for firing Ordnance, allow you to do so. it calls them out as specifically being able to do something you normally couldn't, so…

  11. Matt-Shadowlord says:

    This may be a lonely opinion to hold on the interweb, but there are actually quite a lot of changes that I like.

    • Karvala says:

      There are a lot of good changes that are in 7th edition

      There are some questionable changes that are in 7th edition

      There are a lot of good changes that SHOULD have been in 7th edition but aren't.

      Is it better than 6th edition – IMO yes it is, but it isn't 40k utopia.

      • wellspokenman says:

        "There are a lot of good changes that SHOULD have been in 7th but aren't."

        Well said. A few of them were among the rumors, which was disappointing.

      • Kirby says:

        I think this sums it up nicely; they addressed several things which is great, made some subtle changes and not so subtle which will change the game up but there were a lot of things which weren't touched and I think it'll be a bit of out with the old, in with the new in terms of what is controlling the game.

        We shall see though :)!

    • Almost Mercury says:

      I like it too.

      And the general tone of the comments I've been reading has been reasonably positive.

    • Innocent says:

      You're a brave man, Matt 😀

    • abusepuppy says:

      There's a lot of things i like- the new mission structure is a big one. However, I think it also ignores several elephants in the room, sadly.

    • TheWolfsLunch says:

      Overall I'm digging the changes. I don't particularly like the rolling separate for weapons due to Meltagun/Lascannon Syndrome, but oh well.

  12. AlmostMercury says:

    Regarding Maledictions,

    The wording for Maledictions and Blessings is very similar, but Blessings have a line that explicitly says the same Blessings do not stack. This would imply that Maledictions can stack because Blessings have a line that says they can't, while Maledictions don't.

    This doesn't mean their intention was for stacking, but the wording mistake isn't implied.

    If your reading is accurate, then the rules say Maledictions can stack.

  13. Ish says:

    "There is no limit to the number of units you can place in reserve, though if you have no models on the table you will still lose at the end of a game turn. Units from reserve can manifest psychic powers as they please."

    My Deathwing can all begin in Reserves again? Thanks be unto the Lion!

  14. Herpguy says:

    I think Necron Surflords got boosted big time. Now they are going to be AV13 most of the time in combat rather than AV11 like last edition.

    • abusepuppy says:

      It's pretty huge for the CCB, definitely. I mean, for one, you can soak Missiles/Autocannons on the Overlord riding it, and if Everliving works you get to come back on your thing. The Sweep Attack rules were also removed as a general thing, but that doesn't affect the CCB any.

      Krak Grenades are no longer the bane of the Barge, which is nice.

  15. sirbiscuit says:

    Am I wrong, or did Marines get their knives back? it looks like everyone has a free melee weapon now, so anyone with a pistol just gained an attack, no?

    • daboarder says:

      theres no way that is what was intended

    • Henrythesecond says:

      Really? That would be quite a nice little perk. Not the boost that Assault really needed, but I'll take it all the same. If true, of course…

    • onecrazymojo says:

      I don’t think… But I can see the argument.
      It says that if a model has no specified weapon of the melee type, then you assume they are armed with a basic ccw. Pistols say they can be used as a ccw, and if they are, they use the profile for a basic ccw (which has the melee type).

      For the argument to work, there has to be a disconnect with pistols and their ccw profile, basically claiming the pistol doesn’t actually have the ccw profile (instead of the assumption that the pistol just has 2 seperate profiles).

      • abusepuppy says:

        Pistols explicitly use the "normal CCW" profile in combat.

        • onecrazymojo says:

          Right, exactly. The only way for it to work as suggested above would be to claim the pistol only ‘counts’ as having the profile in the assault phase, but doesn’t actually have the ccw profile inherently, therefore granting the free ccw since no wargear ‘actually’ has a melee subtype.
          It isn’t intuitive, though, and goes against the fairly clear intent. So I don’t see it being very legitimate. Plus, it runs into a silly situation where if you claim a free ccw when you don’t have a melee weapon, it is hard to claim your freebie doesn’t vanish the moment you try to use a pistol as a cc weapon (since the profile become ‘real’ at that moment).

    • Slimnoid says:

      Where do you see that?

    • abusepuppy says:

      They didn't. You only get the free knife if you have no other weapons with the Melee type, and pistols have the Melee type.

  16. Kirby says:

    One thing has jumped out at me with this – a lot of their rule changes are something the community has been doing themselves (i.e. Relic changes are a great example – we will take full credit for that one :)). This is lovely to see and hopefully is included in future FAQs…

  17. SJR says:

    Daemons and summoning seems cray. The amount of warp charge they can generate (Pink horrors, ML-3 heralds for 95 points, Belakor, Fateweaver) means they can be summoning a unit every turn.

    • Wavefire says:

      A unit? Try 2-4 per turn. On average you need to use 7 dice for safety and getting 14+ dice is no problem whatsoever for demons. Anything above that just increases the issue. Then once your new Horrors come into play your dice will just keep multiplying.

      Full Psychic Daemons or Eldar will be close to unstoppable unless you have some kind of improved Deny ability or can blast them off the board in 2 turns.

      • blacksly says:

        I really think that those can be realistically stopped. If they're a Tzeentch list, they're not stopping you in Assault, and if they're using all their dice for powering up Summons, then they're not shooting at you. So they get several units over 2 turns, while not slowing me down in the slightest as I shoot, advance, and assault them… and having a few extra Horror squads won't slow me down. If they summon Bloodthirsters, it's still just 1-2 MCs I have to kill each turn.

        No, the real scary list is 20+ units of Henchmen in an Unbound list, and some Wyrdvane Psykers to "safely" cast the Summons. Sure, you'll lose Wyrdvanes, but the squad overall won't care. These guys don't eat up all of your points, so you still have enough of your army shooting and blocking with IG blob squads, while Bloodthirsters are summoned.

      • TrexPushups says:

        Grey nights mindstrike missile spam as an anti-meta spoiler?

      • Suijin says:

        To summon more heralds you really only need to spend 1 warp charge and then it is impossible for you to perils. Sure you only have a 50% chance to do it, but it is basically free.

        Unless your unit is the target of a psyker power then you can only DtW on rolls of a 6. You get no modifiers to DtW on Blesings, Conjurations, etc.

        You need to remove all the successes also from the opponents psychic power roll. So if they have 3 successes for summoning, you need to remove 3 successes by rolling 3 6s somehow.

        Also you PotW on 2 or more 6s, so even if you roll 5 6s then you still only get 1 PotW.

        • onecrazymojo says:

          Except all the summons are wc3, so you have to roll at least 3 dice for any chance of success (only 12.5%).

          • abusepuppy says:

            The Herald summon is only WC1, but yeah, the summoning spells are expensive.

          • onecrazymojo says:

            Oh. Hrm. I thought the leaked cards all said wc3 for all of them, and hadn’t even bothered to recheck the book. A single herald really isn’t that scary, though.

            • abusepuppy says:

              It is when it can turn into more Heralds/scoring units/greater daemons. Also keep in mind that the 30pts is enough to buy an Exalted Reward (meaning Portalglyph/Grimoire) as well as a Chariot for a Slaaneshi Herald. Even just a lowly Herald of Khorne is still rather a beast in combat and can quite easily grind up a lot of squads by himself.

              • derreavatar says:

                those powers arer really good , but they are not primaris, henceforth only a few ml 1 units will be able to summon bloodthristers or heralds.
                At the end of the day only a few ( some lucky Ml1 or any ML 2 or 3 units )will be able to summon new units , risking some serious perils.
                The only truly unbalanced build is an unboud army of Farseers, this is really scary, they all have all ML3 and can avoid perils with the helm.

                • blacksly says:

                  See my other post about the fragility of Psykers. You can't summon from inside a building, so these expensive, T3/4++ (orT4/3+/4++ on a bike) casters have to be on the outside to cast. Assuming that you start in a building to avoid being killed on Turn 1, what happens if the opponent Drop Pods near you on Turn 1? You have to get out and Summon, but you won't get to summon enough to make up for the losses you'll take when you get shot/assaulted.

                  The real scary SummonList that I can see is Henchmen Warbands at 20pts or so each (1 Psyker, 2 guys with Bolters, scoring with Coteaz), powering up Warp Charges for Wyrdvane Psykers (Wyrdvanes because they don't care if they will lose a body to the almost-inevitable Perils). This is a lot cheaper, which gives you more points left to buy a lot of bodies around the Summoners, so that you can protect them against Turn 1/2 Deep Strikes, and Turn 2 Charges.

                  Even then, since you have to be out in the open, you're vulnerable to being rained on by Wyverns, Thunderfires, etc. It would be a real problem list for Necrons or Tau to face, since they don't DS on Turn 1, or have much Barrage, but otherwise anyone allying with IG or with Drop Pods available has a good chance to handle a Summons List.

          • onecrazymojo says:

            Potentially, yeah. But the summoned herald has so much going against it.
            -Arrives via ds, with only a 6in range from caster. While only 1 model, that is still so close to the caster unit that there is a fair chance of mishap.
            -The sequence in the turn leaves it very vulnerable. After movement, so it can’t join another unit to hide, can’t charge, and can’t manifest any powers of it’s own that turn. The most one can ussually do is run to try and hide.
            -The initial caster just had to sack a wound for a model that is likely to get shot off with minimal effort before it does anything. And from the looks of it, the player doesn’t get to choose where the unsaveable wound gets allocated (sacrifice just says a friendly model within 6in of caster, including caster). Since it doesn’t say it is player choice, it seems to fall under the random allocation rules.

            • abusepuppy says:

              It can manifest powers, just not other Conjuration powers. The chance of mishap is obviously there, but note that Cursed Ground (also in Maelific) can negate that, as can Icons on a unit.

              If you're doing summoning shenanigans, you're going to do so from behind a protected position in cover, so while the enemy may be able to kill them, it won't be trivial to do so.

          • onecrazymojo says:

            Ah, yes. Only conjurations are banned. Although, a new psyker won’t add to the warp charges available, so it isn’t exactly an efficient way to get extra powers off.
            I suppose. I am just used to either very fast armies (pods/bikes/eldar), or gunlines that give no shits about cover and los (tau/guard artillery). So perhaps my perspective on the ease of casually making,a single model go poof is a bit scewed.

            • Gandasch says:

              I think my Hereticus Inquisitor might come out of retirement, put on his Psyocculum and join his 50 Conscript buddies. Just because it's hilarious having 50 lasguns potentially firing at BS10 with the option to get Ignores Cover, Monster Hunter, Precision Shot, or just FRFSRF.

    • Kirby says:

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't horrors have to choose from their book powers?

      • blacksly says:

        Sounds correct to me. A unit of Horrors "must generate their powers from the Change discipline".
        You can use them to power up Wyrdvanes summoning, or Heralds (though Heralds are vulnerable to PotW), but you can't mass summon using Horrors as the casters.

        • onecrazymojo says:

          Hopefully it is covered in the faq. Daemonology specifically says all psykers can generate from it, save tyranids, unless specifically stated otherwise.
          So since, as it currently stands, horrors are not specifically barred from that discipline, they can use it.

          • Kirby says:

            Codex trumps rulebook and if the wording is "must generate their powers from the Change discipline" – bang. They are stuck there, just like Coteaz and most GK units are stuck with their powers.

          • onecrazymojo says:

            Currently, all psykers say they must generate from x, y, z disciplines, so no one has daemonology by that standard.

            • blacksly says:

              Well, if Codex trumps rulebook, then D-class weapons still use the old rules from Codex: Knight Titans. I really think that when a new version of the rulebook comes out and changes a specific rule like this, it's meant to change the old Codices also. So Horrors should have access to the Daemon disciplines, and Knight Titans use the new rules for D-class weapons.

      • abusepuppy says:

        Well, strictly speaking right now NO ONE can take Maelific/Sanctic, but like 6E they'll FAQ it soon I assume (and possibly tell us which models exactly from particular armies can take which disciplines.)

  18. AlexSmith says:

    Anybody notice the misprint on the banish card, card says warp charge 3, rulebook says warp charge 1

  19. CoffeeGrunt says:

    A lot of these changes have made the Devilfish a very attractive Transport now. It Scores, it can move pretty quick with Skimmer status, and can get a 2+ Cover Save when moving Flat Out. Not quite Wave Serpent levels of durability, but I'm thinking it might be worth taking now.

    • wellspokenman says:

      I don't have the book, but I heard that the Jink save is not improved by going Flat Out. Still, all Dedicated Transports got a boost.

    • Kirby says:

      I haven't found a rules reference for increases in cover saves for going Flat Out.

    • _Garnet_ says:

      The Devilfish is attractive, yes, in that it has no guns you care about shooting to get in the way of constant Jinking, provides a safe place for an Ethereal to hide, is relatively tough, and will always have Objective Secured in Battleforged armies. The floating bunker is back!

    • abusepuppy says:

      Flat Out no longer improves saves. That was one of those "knew it, forgot to type it" things.

    • Morollan says:

      I don't think there's a Jink bonus for flat out now so even with Disruption Pod it would still be 3+.

  20. David says:

    @coffee grunt. I've been hunting through the rules to find if it says flat out increases jink by one but couldn't find it. Is it there?

  21. […] update: 3++ has a pretty comprehensive-looking list of the changes […]

  22. daboarder says:

    Anyone know if they finally sorted out ICs infiltrating units that dont have infiltrate?

    • Tetrisphreak says:

      According to the rules infiltrators deploy last – a unit without infiltrate, therefore, will have been deployed or is in reserves already. So by the rules an infiltrating IC will have nothing to join when they deploy. But players will still get it wrong.

      • abusepuppy says:

        The wording is the same as before, so the arguments for/against are pretty much identical.

      • Alastores says:

        The same argument applies to non-inflitrating ICs joining inflitrating units, but once again, they stated that this could not happen, but not the reverse. This implies the reverse is not "players still getting it wrong".

        As abuse said, the arguments are exactly the same. I was really hoping they'd fix this issue.

  23. pedro says:

    several 6th ed codex will need FAQS fast does anyone knows when will it happen?

  24. Tetrisphreak says:

    Blast weapons CAN wound outside of the firers LOS. It says so twice in the blast soecial rule section n

    • abusepuppy says:

      That wording is identical to the 6E version. They can hit and wound outside of their LOS, but the wounds will still be discarded if there's nothing in LOS.

  25. MadmanMSU says:

    QUESTION: Is moving through walls still a thing? In 6th, they had that ambiguous rule about "before the game, decide with your opponent", and every marine having grenades to blast through walls.

    Did that change?

  26. Prometheus says:

    "You can't allocate wounds to models out of LOS."

    Incorrect, pg. 158, last sentence, 4th paragraph. (5th, if you count the italicized flavor text)

    • abusepuppy says:

      Huh, that's a bit of a weird contradiction, since that part is phrased like a reminder.

      • Prometheus says:

        They do that all the time– "of course it works this way, it's obvious isn't it".

        I then to think of it as "back-hand rule making" most commonly seen in FAQs but often enough in the main rules. And yes, it's weird.

  27. Loken says:

    What I am trying to figure out, is, won't blessings be near unstoppable if your opponent has a lot of dice? Let's say a Chaos Space Marine player with 6 dice, plus the D6 rolled. Let's say he rolls a 3 and throws 9 dice at endurance. Wouldn't that just about be unstoppable? Getting five or six sucesses with 6's needed would be so hard, for most armies at least.

    Am I missing something critical here?

    • onecrazymojo says:

      Dispelling blessings will definitely be hard. At least there is a chance now, though. The real change is the much increased chance of perils, and the significantly less reliablity of casting powers.

      • Loken says:

        Aye, all of that is true. Still…..if someone really wants to run a deathstar (like GUO with plague drones, jetstar, screamerstar, ect), then they can and you probably cannot stop them from getting off the required power, thus meaning you probably cannot stop them. Unless you run your own slap-on-the-table and win deathstar.

        It is a bit dissapointing, for sure. I was hoping those things would get shut down.

        • sirbiscuit says:

          If they're throwing a ton of dice at the power each turn to make sure it goes off, Perils will stop them for you.

          • Loken says:

            I thought that if a psker got perils of the warp, the spell was still sucessful???

            • sirbiscuit says:

              It is, but how many turns can psykers afford to be periling? Some of those results could potentially take care of them right away.

        • blacksly says:

          You won't need deathstars, you'll need Invisibility (Be'lakor, or a good amount of IG Psykers/Wyrdvanes to roll it) plus a tarpit unit (Cultists, IG blobs, etc). A 30+ mob with Invisibility on it may not do much damage, but it's not dying, so it will hold the deathstar units away from a gunline.

  28. Chris says:

    Odd change to flyers and swooping fmcs. You can put friendly units directly underneath them if they fit. Can you then assault that unit? It gets a bit weird.

  29. Scuzgob says:

    Im just incredibly surprised that the way chariots work was my proposal for different chariot rules a while back

    as for the rest of it – eh, could be worse. unbound is the only superhuge problem imo. having to get to grips with a new phase is a bit of a git, especially since the armies i usually play have no psykers

  30. Gremlong says:

    Strange question:

    Since vehicles can snap fire ordnance , can they fire at flyers now with blast ordnance weapons ? It would be at bs1, and scatter more though. Or can blast weapons just not fire at flyers at all still ?

    Don’t have the book in front of me atm.

    Thanks.

    • Avatar says:

      Nope. Flyers still explicitly say that you cannot hit them with Template or Blast weapons, or any other attacks that don't roll To Hit. p84.

    • Trickstick says:

      You can snap fire ordnance, but you are still restricted from snap firing blast weapons.

      Are there even any non-blast ordnance weapons to use this rule?

      • abusepuppy says:

        There are a small handful, but they are extremely rare. In fact, I don't think there are any in standard 40K at all at this point?

  31. TrexPushups says:

    Am I missing something or do troops from formations aka cultists from the helcult formation not have Objective Secured as the formation is its own detachment?

    This will make a big difference in how I have to use that formation if I am not mistaken. I might just go with a mayhem pack instead.

  32. Matt says:

    Why will Eldar dominate heavily? Psychic powers got less reliable and skimmer got a passive nerf.

    • blacksly says:

      A couple of combined reasons:
      1) Wave Serpents as Skimmers may have been nerfed a bit. But Wave Serpents as Scoring, Objective Secured Troops got a HUGE buff with regards to scoring objectives.

      2) You no longer really have to depend on Farseers having to get Fortune… Warlocks can roll on the Telepathy table to try for Invisibility (and get PsyShriek for free, in addition), making it much more likely that you will get a great defensive power. And once you get that, you can then try for Fortune. It makes it much less likely that you'll suffer a game where your main protective power is not available for a Seer Council, because either Fortune or Invisibility will be enough.

      • Ish says:

        Just when you thought DAVU had gone the way of the dodo…

      • Fildrigar says:

        Warlocks don’t get to use Telepathy. They only get to use their own Runes of Battle.

        • blacksly says:

          That is possible, but by that interpretation, then NONE of the Codices get to use the new racial disciplines list, because each Codex's unit says which Disciplines it uses. So, even Daemons don't get to use Malefic Demonology, and even GKs don't get to use Sanctic Demonology.

          As I understand, the new rulebook specifies that all units that don't have a set power (like Hammerhand) get to use the new racial disciplines list, so it would follow that Horrors can use Malefic Demonology, and so can Wyrdvanes, and Warlocks can use all the Disciplines available to Eldar (fear the 10-Warlock Seer Council throwing out 10-12 Psychic Screams a turn, then use JSJ to jump back).

    • kris says:

      Skimmers got a nerf to damage and a buff to durability and it is the defenders discretion to use it. Ie. The skimmers you shoot are harder to kill, the skimmers you dont shoot are just as deadly. Thats overall a buff unless you can bring anti tank weaponry to bear against every skimmer every round. Also eldar can easily ignore 4/6 of the perils and have the ld to ignore the rest. So they can throw dice at psychic powers all day. They can even sacrifice warlocks every turn to summon demons. And warlock powers that rarely worked when you needed them can now be all but guarunteed to work at the times you need. How were eldar NOT buffed is the question:)

  33. Jonas says:

    Can an allied Daemons Herald lead a squad of CSM Cultists?

    • Loken says:

      They cannot because of the rules in teh daemon codex. look up daemonic instability and those sort of rules..

  34. DK6 says:

    7e ended the drop pod HP for imobilized arguement

  35. Fraust says:

    I've seen some arguments that a group of psykers in the same unit can't all cast the same power. So the heralds in a screamer star can't all cast flickering fire. Thoughts on that? I looked at it when I got a chance to glance at the book, and can see where the argument is coming from…but it seems wonky to me.

    • abusepuppy says:

      I mentioned this in passing, but there seems to be a bit of a disconnect. The psyker rules do indeed say that "a unit" can only manifest a power once per turn… but it talks about units manifesting powers a bunch, so if you take that as "a unit (including any ICs attached)" then that means that the powers the ICs know _can be cast by the rest of the unit_. Your Herald rolled up Prescience? Let the Horrors cast it for him!

      That seems wrong, which leads me to think that isn't what was intended. Flickering Fire is another good example of that.

  36. Guest says:

    Personally I think Invisibility is going to cause massive problems. On average you're going to need 12 warp dice to dispel one casting. Removing D helps tone down warlords but makes deathstars very, very powerful.

    Conjuring troops (horrors) is also very good. I suppose it's almost balanced in that anyone with a psykik phase can ally a herald with horrors and cast it.

    This is a rather insane edition for allies, GK + daemons + nids for the win.

    * This edition will be awesome to play with friends and at your local gaming store but I have no idea how tournaments are going to deal with this unless they impose some sort of massive restrictions.

    • abusepuppy says:

      Invisibility is really stupid with how good some of the deathstars can be.

      I expect you'll see a lot of the same restrictions that came about at the end of 6th being applied to 7th. Only one Combined Arms Detachment and one Ally Detachment, no more than two different "sources," nerf to 2+ rerollable saves, etc, etc.

  37. Hellgore says:

    Interestingly noone noticed the fundamental change to buildings… They have HPs now and can be glanced (finally!) which results in the loss of a hit point. I find that very, very important as that makes those battlecanon turrets manageable now.

  38. furstenburg says:

    Reading through the book myself. Can flamers no longer fire overwatch? There doesn’t seem to be anything about them other than template weapons not being able to fire snap shots.

    Also the rules on detachments seem a bit vague. Is there anything that says all combined arms detachments have to be from the same codex? Under restrictions it says

    “All units chosen must have the same faction”

    But on p120 it says that restrictions only apply to units in this detachment, not all combined arms detachments

    • abusepuppy says:

      The Wall of Death rule is still in, so yes, they can fire Overwatch.

      I believe you can choose multiple CADs from different armies.

  39. onecrazymojo says:

    Anyone notice there aren’t rules for building levels? Like, who gets hit from blasts and templates when on multiple floors.

    • abusepuppy says:

      That's a good catch there, actually. You do still have to measure vertical distance for levels, though, so they aren't entirely absent.

  40. abusepuppy says:

    Added some more stuff to the post that I noticed recently (and that wasn't talked about in the comments.)

    • Droids_Rule says:

      AbusePuppy, I don't know if you already saw this one, but you can in fact allocate wounds to models outside of LoS, with any kind of Blast weapon. Page 158, on the center-left side, it should say something that, paraphrased, stresses that wounds are allocated to the closest model as normal regardless of LoS when it comes to Blasts.

  41. Nero says:

    Maybe it's just me, but before I thought of eldar, I was thinking how crazy grey knights would be with all those extra dice from things like psychic tanks and throwing a random one of psyker into hencemen groups. Depending on who can use the powers after the FAQ i'd say it might be better for them then eldar.

    Also a friend and I couldn't find the rules for this, but are all the dice pooled together and shared between allied and primary detachments? If so that could cause so additional shenanigans.

    And lastly is it possible to form a "death star" of independent characters without a body of wounds (unit) being required to join them?

    • abusepuppy says:

      GK will depend a lot of which of their psykers can use which disciplines- if we take 6E as an example, they actually will not have a lot of options in that regard. GK also suffer because they want to be casting a lot of low-level powers (which is harder than before) and because they can't shrug off Perils the way Eldar can. Also, Sanctic, while not bad, is easily weaker than Maelific.

      Warp charge dice are pooled between all models in your army, regardless of detachment or status.

      Independent Characters can join other ICs if they want- in fact, you can join them to anything that isn't a MC or vehicle.

  42. Sherman says:

    Flamers – It's in the Template rules, Wall of Death is still alive.
    Knives – Sixth edition also had a rule that everyone counted as having a hand weapon, pistols always gave an extra attack, that is not a change. The fact that Necron Wraith pistols were "FAQed" to say they didn't get an extra attack was just poor rules writing.
    Buildings – At least as important as the HP is that all rules that affect vehicles now also affect buildings. Buildings are not nearly as tough to crack as they were.
    Battlements – Grenades can be thrown onto battlements. Battlements are no longer a unique thing, so much as an elevated position with cover. Think of them as a hill with a wall that also happens to open into the building below. At least as far as I can tell. There are no rules about units occupying battlements, or only one unit being able to control a battlement, etc. All the rules are basically saying they're good footing for jump troops and explosions on top hit the building below too.

    • abusepuppy says:

      The bit about knives isn't true at all. You only get a "free" combat weapon if you don't have any other melee weapons. Pistols are a melee weapon (in addition to other stuff.)

      You can throw a grenade onto the battlements using the Shooting Phase rules for grenades, yes, but not the Assault Phase ones like you used to.

      • Sherman says:

        I disagree. If you have no specified melee weapon, you're "treated as being armed with a single close combat weapon". If you then buy a pistol that for that model, why would you lose the above rule? I get that he's now got a specified weapon, but he doesn't lose the fact that it was previously unspecified and that the unspecified part is in fact specifying that he has a close combat weapon. That's like saying a model with a chainsword loses the chainsword because he bought a pistol in my mind.

        Even if you're 100% correct, the fact is that the wraith's pistol should have been an assault 1 weapon if the original writer did not want it to provide an additional attack. So either the FAQ writer was wrong, or the original writer didn't know that pistols would contribute nothing but confusion. In the last three editions pistols have done nothing more than Assault 1 with an extra attack in melee. Poor rules writing was my main point.

        Anyway, thank you for this solid update on the rules. Very helpful. The one thing I'd add that I think is pretty major is that buildings also took a huge hit from being effected by all the rules that used to only effect vehicles.

        • abusepuppy says:

          > I get that he's now got a specified weapon, but he doesn't lose the fact that it was previously unspecified and that the unspecified part is in fact specifying that he has a close combat weapon.

          …What? I seriously don't understand what you're saying here. You ONLY are counted as having the basic melee weapon if you don't have any other melee weapons. Any model with a pistol has a melee weapon by definition.

          >the fact is that the wraith's pistol should have been an assault 1 weapon if the original writer did not want it to provide an additional attack.

          Wraiths do not have any other close combat weapons, just like Tactical Marines. You need an additional CCW to gain the second attack, and they do not have that.

          >The one thing I'd add that I think is pretty major is that buildings also took a huge hit from being effected by all the rules that used to only effect vehicles.

          Virtually all tournaments and players I had met already played it this way anyways, since otherwise things made very little sense.

          • Sherman says:

            That's a regional decision. No one around here played that "vehicle" was synonymous with "building", though personally I agree that it made very little sense.

            I think the difference in our opinions on non-specified weapons is when the rule comes into play. In my interpretation I look at it at the time that it is written in the codex, therefore models that don't say they have a melee weapon actually do. You are looking at it at the time after you've upgraded the model. I totally get where you're coming from, but I maintain it's poor writing and giving a special rule to a weapon that will never be used is extremely poor rules construction. If the weapon was used by other models that used the special rule I'd totally understand, but it's not.

  43. Guest says:

    Like Mephiston?

  44. onecrazymojo says:

    So I am thinking Legion of the Damned make out really well with the new foc rules. Even as a primary army, they still aren’t troops, so they don’t get obj secured (unless faq’d), but instead you can use them as super durable allies that always score and are really good at removing almost all regular troops, without having to take a pretty easy to kill warlord.

  45. Joe says:

    I'm so glad I quit in 6th