New Eldar… UPDATED 19/4/2015

I know, I still haven’t been around much. Sorry. Everytime I check in though there appears to be a new book… It’s Eldar this time, let’s see what the rumors say.

I’ll put my thoughts in later. Those new jetbikes look amazing though – took them years to get out but well worth it. Hope too many people didn’t giddy up on jetbikes before…

The verdict awaits…

Line for formatting 🙂

via Iuchiban 4-17-2015 

Ok. Let’s go.All Distortion weapons are Strenght D. All of them. But the scythes apply a -1 when rolling on the D table, and the strenght is considered to be 4 when calculating the instant death.Step by step.
Banshees add +3″ when running or assaulting. They igoner the I penalti when assualting through cover.
There are no “chapter tactics”.

Yes they have:
Primaris: Guide (no changes)
1: Executioner: Focussed witch fire. 24″. Target receives 3 hits, always wounds on 2+. If target diez, another model receives 2 hits. If target dies another gone receives 1 hit.
2: Fatality: You re-roll to wound or to penetrate when firing at target unit. 24″
3: Will of Asuryan: 12″ bubble of Fear and Adamantium will
4: Fortune: As always
5: Mind fight: Mainly the same.
6: Ancestral Storm: Warp charges 3 (5″ blast), Warp charge 4 (Apoc blast), 24″, Haywire, wounds 2+
Names may be different in the English version. (I own the Spanish one).

Wraithknight is LoW (295 points), Jump gargantuan creature
Wraithguard/blades are not tropos anymore if taking a Spiritseer (Only Elites)
Crimson hunter basically the same, but 140 points only.

No changes on Battle focus of the bladestorm rule. No hints on the Iyanden codex

(Wraithknight) Sword + Shield: Free (Sword is Strenght D)
Solar cannon + Shield: Free
(The Wraithknight’s Heavy Wraithcannons) Is the equipment by default.

(Jetbikes) 17/model, every model can purchase one scatter laser or shuriken cannon for +10 points

(Wraithknight Suncannon) Sun (Sorry for the “solar”) remains the same.

(Wave) Serpents are 110 points, and shield is now: S6, Assault 2D6, Ignores cover, One use only.

Shining spears have 4+ cover save if they moved the previous turn. 25/model. Lance is: 6″, F6, Assault 1, Lance. In combat: +3F when charging. Both are AP3.

Wraithblades: Same but 30/model and have Rage.

Hemlock: Same cost, has Lvl 2, can choose Daemonology (Sacred), Telepathy and Battle Runes. D-Scythes are a special D weapon as mentioned above,.

Scorpions: 17/model, Infiltration, Stealth, and Shrouded until they fire or fight in combat
Warp Spiders: 19/model Monofilament rule has changed.They roll to wound against I, although the T is still used to calculate ID.
Hawks: 16/model, they move 18″, and when moving over a Flyer the can do a special attack. Hits on 4+, S4, AP4 Haywire

(Wraithguard) Cost is the same.
(Regards to Autarchs and Swooping Hawk “no scatter”) Basically the same.
(Squadrons of Falcons/Fire Prisms/Night Spinners) YEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Up to three!!!!!!!! And they have special rules if done so:
Falcon: if Deep Strike, first Falcon does not scatter. Others are place at 4″.
Fire Prism: For each additional Fire Prism firing +1S / -1AP
Night Spinners: +1S for each Night spinner
(Serpent Shield) Nop, only 24″ (range)
(Eldar Warhost Detachment) The main bonus of the Warhost is that they always run 6″.
(Serpent Shield Defence) When working as a shield, it works as before.
Falcon can DS only if taken in a unit of 3.

Guardians: Same
Dire avengers: They overwatch with BS2
Avatar is LoW, but mainly the same
I cannot see any psyker being able to get malefic daemonology

Formation rules:
Guardian battlehost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul’s support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12″. Guardians can purchase a Platform for free.
Windrider host: Once per game all formation gets Shred when firing shuriken weapons
Guardian Stormhost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul’s support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12″. Storm guardians can purchase 2 special weapons for free.
Seer council: They harness Warp charges with 3+.
Aspect Host: They re-roll LD tests and get +1 to WS or BS.
Dire Avenger Shrine: Once per game, Shuriken weapons are Assault 3. +1 to BS
Crimson Death: Preferred enemy (Flying things), 4+ cover save, and if Jink, may re-roll the cover save.
Wraithhost: Get battle trance, if targe is at 18″ or less from spiritser, reroll to hit

(Warp Spider guns) Why is that? You still have S6. Target needs to have I6 to wound him on 4+.
(Dire Avengers Troops) Yes, they are.

Before leaving I will post the list of special ítems:
– A pistol S4, AP3, Rending
– A sword +2S, AP- Rending and if fighting in a challenge, wounds on 2+ and Instant Death
– One sniper rifle, AP2, 120″
– One ítem that if bearer does not cast any phychic power, or shots during the shooting phase, he can run 48″ and may reroll cover saves.
– One sword +1S, AP3, Soulblaze (affects wounded unit and all enemy units at 6″)
– One ítem that when bearer diez, 5″ template is placed and all models suffer one S4, AP5 hit. If at least, one wound is infflicted, bearer comes back to life, with 1W. One use only
– One ítem that makes psyhic powers required 1 WC less. No inv saves if done so.

Dire Avengers: Overwatch at BS2 OR get counter attack and stubborn
Exarch: 4++Howling banshees: +3″ when running or assaulting. Ignore I penalties when assaulting through difficult terrain. Fear. No Overwatch allowed when Banshees assault
Exarch: Units in CC with the Banshees have -2LStriking Scorpions: Stealth. Shrouded until the fire or assault.
Exarch: During a challenge compare I values. Exarch gets +1A for each point his I is better tan his oponent.


Fire Dragons: +1 on the vehicle damage chart.
Exarch: Once per turn, may reroll one to hit, to wound or to penetrare roll

Swooping Hawks: If the move over a flier, every modl gets one special attack that hits on 4+, S4, AP4, Haywire. They move 18″
Exarch: His unit does not scatter if DS

Warp Spiders: They may jump during the opponent’s shooting phase. If after the jum, the spiders are out of LoS or reach, firing unit cannot choose another target.
Exarch: His unit reroll all LD tests

Shining Spears: 4+ cover sabe
Exarch: Reroll to wound vs MC and rerolls to penétrate

Dark Reapers: Reroll to hit if target is: Flier, has turboboosted previous turn or moved flat out
Exarch: His weapon fires one more shot tan normally. For example: Heavy 2 becomes Heavy 3

Phoenix Lords:

Asurmen (220)
4++ (3++ if fighting in a challenge). Gets 1D3 Warlord traits. Sword is +1S, AP2, Mastercrafterd. For each wound take a Ld test. If failed model dies.

Jain Zar (200)
When fighting in a challange, Jain Zar chooses a weapon of is opponent. He may not use this weapon. If done so, Jain Zar has -1A. Enemy models at +6″ get -5 to WS (Mínimum 1). Her sword is AP2, Shred.

Karandras (200)
When arriving from reserves can choose any border. His mandiblaster ignores ALL saves.

Fuegan (220)
He gets +1S and +1A for each lost wound.

Baharroth (170)
When DS all units at 6″ are treated as hit by a weapon with the Blind SR.

Maugan Ra (195)
Can fire his Maugetar twice per turn (That means 8 S6 Rending shots). Maugetar has an alternative profile: Assault 1, S1, Poison 2+. If one model dies, put 5″ marker. All models under the template get a S5 AP4 hit.

On top of that, they have as well the rules listed for their Aspects.

Also I will add that illic night spears weapon has lost distort but always has precision shot and can give that to ranger units he joins

Guardian Battlehost:

  • 1 Farseer
  • 3 Units of Guardian Defenders
  • 1 Vyper Squadron
  • 1 Unit of War Walkers
  • 1 Vaul’s Wrath support Battery
  • 0-1 Warlock Conclave

Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul’s support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12″. Guardians can purchase a Platform for free.

Windrider Host:

  • 1 Farseer
  • 1 Warlock Conclave
  • 3 Units of Windriders
  • 1 Vyper Squadron

Once per game all formation gets Shred when firing shuriken weapons

Guardian Stormhost:

  • 1 Farseer
  • 3 Units of Storm Defenders
  • 1 Vyper Squadron
  • 1 Unit of War Walkers
  • 1 Vaul’s Wrath support Battery
  • 0-1 Warlock Conclave

Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul’s support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12″. Storm guardians can purchase 2 special weapons for free.

Seer Council:

  • 2 Farseers
  • 1 Warlock Conclave

They harness Warp Charges with 3+.

Aspect Host:

  • 3 Units of Aspect Warriors (in any combination)

They re-roll LD tests and get +1 to WS or BS.

Dire Avenger Shrine:

  • 3 Units of Dire Avengers

Once per game, Shuriken weapons are Assault 3. +1 to BS

Crimson Death:

  • 3 Crimson Hunters

Preferred enemy (Flying things), 4+ cover save, and if Jink, may re-roll the cover save.


  • 1 Spiritseer
  • 3 Units of Wraithguard or Wraithblades (in any combination)
  • 1 Wraithlord
  • 1 Wraithknight

Get Battletrance, if target is at 18″ or less from Spiritser, reroll failed to hits.



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149 responses to New Eldar… UPDATED 19/4/2015

So the serpent shield loses 1 str, drops to 24", and gets the expected one use only, but picks up an additional d6 shots. Seems good to me. If the rumor for losing laser lock on scatter lasers is true, I'll be a sad panda.

I hope that 4th special item isn't the change to the mantle of the laughing god. but, given the rules for the solitaire in the harlequins dex, seems likely.

Last 2 sound like they're probably the phoenix gem and spirit stone of whatshisname.

Wraithknight 300 pt jump gargantuan seems like its still broken as hell. As if it wasn't hard enough to take them down, and the eldar-curion has a slot that can be just a wraithknight,

Squads of falcons/prisms yay!

Str D from every wraithguard/lord/knight and some fliers makes me want to cry codex creep, but I'll wait a bit to see what happens

The fourth item is most likely Falouch's Wing which is in the 6th ed book. Sounds like Mantle is gone entirely – I think the message is 'Be a Solitaire'.

27 points for scatter laser armed Jetbikes is ridiculous, and the proliferation of Str D is stupid. I was going to a couple of tournaments this year, but not now. If I don't get first turn Eldar lists will probably table my Guard, and I do not see how I can really do anything about it.

If one broken army is enough reason for you to skip tournaments your plans were broken from the start. Its not like Serpent Spam didn't table armies by turn two or so already. And Jetbikes are at least easier to kill.

While it is ridiculous, this may allay your fears somewhat; the only Str D weapon capable of reaching across the table turn 1 is the Wraithknight, which has two shots. Wraithguard are 12" range. Hemlock Wraithfighter is a flier and can't come on the board until turn 2 minimum.

While it only delays until t2, wg with webway allies will delete a unit the turn they arrive, and give no fucks if they go first/second.

Wraithguard don't bother me too much with regards to balance. They are so expensive that they're actually a loss to their list against many opponents, if used as a suicide melta/uber-flamer squad. As you say, they appear, delete a unit, and then…
1: they deleted a unit separated from the rest of your units. You blow up their Raider, and they're footslogging. Still dangerous, but not too badly for a 400pt unit (with Raider, HQ, and Webway).
2: they deleted a unit near the rest of your army. Throw in a cheap MSU to eat the Wall of Flame, then assault them with something. Add in short-range shooting to soften them up first, and they end up as a suicide melta that kills a lot less than its points, and then is still a bit useful by tanking some of your firepower and assaulting. But for 400 pts, that's not really all that dangerous.

Compare vs about the same amount of points in Grav Centurions or Sternguard dropping in Drop Pods. Same idea… they land, they erase something, they eat a respectable amount of firepower/assaulting, and die. They're units to watch out for, but not units that make a list broken.

Erm…jetbikes seem a bit good, its almost like there is gonna be a new kit for them or something…

quick question … do only make one saving roll per s D shoot, or as many saves per d3/d6+6 wounds?

Roll your saves per D shot, then take d3 / 6+d6 per model. Wounds do not spill over to another model if you overkill a model.

Scatterbikes are literaly the most broken thing 40k ever saw. I can't believe some morons on Dakka are trying to defend them.

Forget 3rd ed BA Rhino Rush
Forget 4th ed whatever was OP (I skipped that edition pretty much entirely)
Forget 5th ed Grey Knights
Forget 6-7th ed Serpents

Scatterbikes may be what finaly breaks the dam.

Yeah, a unit of 10 cranking out 40str6 shots, 27 hits on average, 22 wounds for T4 and below, at 36" range, on the most mobile platform in the game, with objective secured, for 270pts. Sounds legit. Combined with Str D shredding heavy armor, I don't really see the counter.

Oh, and that's without talking about a T8, 6 Wound monster, that has Feel No Pain and 2 ranged D weapons for under 300pts. 40k has jumped the shark.

From outside the range of most of their weapons every turn. So if they take 4 units of bikes, they will kill 29 space marines per turn without exposing themselves to anything but heavy weapons fire. 270 points kills 100 points of space marines per turn from outside the range 9 out of 10 of their guns. How many of those jetbikes will a squad of space marines kill each turn if they stay at maximum range? It's not the damage they do it is the complete lack of risk involved. How would you deal with this? I am genuinely curious. I'm not a tactical genius and I don't claim to be. Since you obviously are, give me some legit counters to this.

As a guard player i really don’t know what your worried about. Two Wyvern at 120 points should quite easily kill 10 jetbikes a turn. I know I have had it done enough times to me.

of course, a canny eldar player will realize this, and eliminate the wyverns first, whether it be from S6 or D, those wyverns aren't likely to last more than a turn.

Those bikes (and the Wraithknight as well) have a 48" threat range. It will be rare that I will ever get more than a single turn of shooting.

I feel for you man. You Eldar players are the ones who are really getting hosed. I can still play with the rest of the 40k universe, but Eldar players are going to struggle to find games, and when you do, your wins will be hollow, your ties will be losses, and your losses will be embarrassing. There are two 40k games now, one for Eldar, and one for everybody else. Sorry man, hopefully they will put out another OP codex for you to play against.

Seriously you sound like there has never been a tough Codex before. I should put that speech in some poster to just raise it up anytime a new Codex is released and the crying starts. I guess I should be relieved that Eldar get the heat now since it finally makes people shut up about Necrons but the sheer drama you put into this is just so over the top.

I just don't have an answer for this one, not in any imperial codex. I had ways to play the other OP codexes and still have fun. Frustrated fun maybe, but it was still fun. This doesn't sound like fun. I don't think that others will find it much fun either. Everything has a breaking point. I'm not saying I am going to sell everything on eBay, and play chess from now on. I just won't play this codex. What has me worried is that GW will ruin a codex I do have.

You can patronize me all you want, but I am not the only one that thinks this is a problem. I agree that I am being more vocal than most. However, once people start really thinking about how to handle 50 of these Jetbikes, they are going to see it as a problem too. Good luck man. I don't know Necrons very well, so maybe you have the right counters. I don't, and I don't see one in my collection. If you think of one, something that will give an imperial player a fighting chance let me know. Give me something more then insults. If all you've got is being a jerk, then bother someone else.

Step 1. Get Tigurius
Step 2. Attach to Grav Centurions
Step 3. …
Step 4. Profit

Grav Weapons solve the Wraithknight problem (although nothing beats FRFSRF with Misfortune for sass points), and with Tiggy they solve the bikes problem too.

Not sure why people are going bonkers over Eldar Jetbikes when Decurion Tomb Blades are a thing. Still can't see why Eldar Jetbikes with Lasers are 5ppm better than an Ignores Cover Str6 Blast Tomb Blade.

Grav cannons have a 24" range, how are you going to take down those bikes after the initial drop? So you take out a unit or two, the rest are going to stay outside your range and either ignore you or remove you with weight of fire. I also doubt any Eldar player is going to let one Psyker have his way with them.

Why on earth would a unit with 2 36" ranged D weapons that moves 12" a turn get within rapid fire range of foot slogging guard? Unless your Psyker is already dead, in which case the Str 3 shots won't even scratch his paint.

I'm sure you tournament guys will sort this out, but I'll just stick to saying no to cone heads until you do.

You can always construct a scenario in which a unit is invincible. You do however have transport, Deep Strike and Teleport Options. If your point is that if you do not move or adapt while someone shoots you from greater range then you are right, they will win.
Now if you also insist on pure Guard and Footslogging we may just get to a poit in which an optimised Eldar army will indeed defeat the army you have limited and built without mobile options by your own choice.

To be fair, Imperial Guard don't on the face of it have a lot of great options to adapt to – except for taking allies in enough quantity that you may as well not be playing Guard. Both the Chimera and Taurox are quite easy to torrent to death with S6, and all IG infantry are similarly vulnerable. A response could be to go tank heavy, but then you are looking at all the D weapon options that Eldar will apparently soon have – including flying ones. So transports are of limited assistance, mass foot armies right out, heavy armour very vulnerable – so what is left for IG? Return of mass flyers?

If these rumours are true, then I expect to see a lot of Eldar lists that are basically max jetbikes plus a couple of Hemlocks. Simple, highly effective, and likely to maintain/extend Eldar's dominance in the top tournament places.

Should be interesting. Hey, if this is the new trend I look forward to Tau Broadsides being upgunned to D weapons with the new book 🙂


Gate of infinity for the cents, infiltrate you blobs in his face, get more wyverns and hidd them behindl osblockers. Seriously, dont panic, think about it,let it rest, rethink your build. You might not be one but you come across as a total whining noob. A player needs to adapt each time a new codex, dataslate, whatever is put out and its comming at a very fast pace these days… But not playing against certain armies is not going to make your gameskills any better.

I actually wasn't that upset before I did think it through. The more I thought about it, the more concerned I became. I have been frustrated by glib answers coming from people who haven't thought this through and just assume that I am overreacting. This is broken. Proxy some models and play some games and you will see what I mean. If you go first against this or use drop pods you can inflict some damage. If you go second you will probably lose unless your opponent is an idiot.

I don't think it's quite that cut and dry… you can go 2nd and win. The real problem is that the unit is so OP that it forces major list design and gameplay changes upon opponents, while really not suffering any itself.
It's a MEQ unit with great mobility and good long-range shooting that is dangerous to all models with wounds or AV12 or lower, and backed up by either D weapons, Lance weapons, or Fire Dragons, to handle the heavier armor. Basically, an army that you can give to a 10-yr old and have him wreck people, while playing against it successfully takes serious skill in list building and playing.

Heldrakes, the Burning Brand, and Burning Chariots are going to make major comebacks. I'm not sure about Soulgrinders… while they will wreck Jetbike lists, the D weapons wreck them.

That's my point, and I might have lost the plot a bit while arguing back and forth. No game against this kind of list can be considered remotely fair without significant comp. This is like playing chess, but giving up your queen before you start. You can overcome it, but you need to play far better than your opponent. Which comes back to one of the two reasons this won't be fun for opponents. I can play better than my opponent and still lose, and not by a slim margin. I can play better and still lose badly. The other frustrating thing is not being able to shoot back a lot of the time because of the range and maneuver disparities.

The range on the Burning Brand is too small to be of too much help. Heldrakes would have been a great counter before the turret nerf, but I am not sure they will work well enough now. The bikes are available in too great a number and are too mobile. Any unit can be brought down, but doing it efficiently and maintaining balance is another matter.

I disagree. To really get maximum effect out of jetbikes you need to minimize the squad sizes 4 max. Otherwise your foot print is so big your opponent can pick you off. Their true strength lies in their ability to hide after shooting. They can't stand out in the open and hope a 3+ armour save and Jink can save them. They are a 27 point space marine from a defensive point of view.

Make no mistake, Jetbikes are a finesse unit. An Eldar army with 3-4 units of small jetbike units in addition to everything else is going to be far more intimidating than 6 x10 jetbikes with scatter lasers. It's hard countered far too easily.

You'll also notice that if your opponent is spamming jetbikes and hemlocks (or Wraith Knights) then they have no air defense. Heldrakes are amazing. Even with the turret nerf. You can send them down the flanks and flush out the jetbikes from cover. Combine that with deep striking terminators and fast moving units like Mauler fiends or Chaos Spawn.

Or out resilience jetbikes. Land Raiders and allied Soul Grinders come to mind and are immune to Jetbike squads.

The new book is out soon. The meta will adapt and everyone's army list will have to adapt as well.

To avoid the possibilty of failing a leadership test, I think you will see them in larger units, probably 4 or 5 units of 9. I doubt anyone bringing them in numbers will bring less than 40. The extended range changes their play style considerably. Stay at long range and pick things off or rush to get rear armor on harder targets. Move, Shoot, and when you get in trouble Jink your way out. No infantry based weapon with a range of 24" or less should get a shot at you unless you decide to take the risk, with the exception of deep strikes and drop pods. You should be able to counter those easily enough as well. I don't think you will see a lot of Hemlocks or Wraithknights. It sounds like there are better armor counters in the book. Just because its got a D, doesn't mean it is the best option.

"The range on the Burning Brand is too small to be of too much help."

Remember that you will usually run it on a FMC, so that's a really large threat range. Even with using it only on a Bike-mounted Lord or Sorceror, it still has a 32" threat radius.

True, I did forget that. It sounds like CSM might be the best counter. There are the rumors that Vypers get Flakk missiles for free though and Swooping Hawks getting to haywire grenade fliers. Still, it's nice that something will kill those damned jetbikes.

Well, a few other counters may be Imperial Guard (especially the Heretics & Renegades version from IA 13), and Daemon or Nid Flying Circus. Maybe Flyer-based Necrons, also.

My problem with this Eldar Codex is not that it's unbeatable, and it may even be beatable by some lists that don't even have to tailor much… my problem is that a ton of OTHER lists, that are generally good, basically just got stamped "Need Not Apply" for tournament use because without a ton of Flying units and/or a lot of good-ranged Ignore Cover shooting, they can't handle the WK/Jetbike combination. And anything that lessens the variety of viable builds is, IMO, bad for the game.

Because not everyone play sm or eldar you know..go tell the onyl winning big tournament nid list will be blow by new cheesy easy field s D/stomp.
Go tell new necren they could put there their reanimation protocol to4 vs s D weapons.
And try tell to csm player anything and you will still get the same results as our strengh should be walker and anything new just bring just **more power to bring vehicle down.

You are also forgetting drop pods with sternguard. You can equip heavy flamer, multiple Flamers, or meltas, I don’t remember if you can use grab weapons on them. Anyway 1 unit of sternguard arriving in a drop pod will clear most of a bike unit. If the eldar player is not smart and did not picked a gardener to go with the bike squad they will probably run. If he picked a farseer, you will probably need some long range to finish the job, or another drop pod. For this to work you will either need 2-3 drop pod units each designed for killing one thing. For example, killing the wraith knight means you will need meltas or something else that is strong enough. I already mentioned what you need for bikes. I know they are toughness 4 but you will have multiple templates and any other kind of shooting you bring. My advise is to have 2 sternguard teams when you against an eldar and your third drop pod we’ve you desire. I play both marines and eldar and yes I believe the bikes are very sting now…. We know why they did that…. Cash grab for the new shinny models. They did that to us with the multiple wraithknight trap lol. Anyway, there are ways to deal with strong units. At least they are not 2+ invul saves with rerolls of 1…… Give at a try or 2 against an eldar player and if you wish post again and let us know how it goes. Good luck!

My problem is my two mian armies are IG and DA. DA was already a struggle, and IG is going to have a hard time with the bikes. I don't really want to buy a new Imperial Knight or another army to be competitive. It was quite the challenge to make a list that could hold it's own before this book came out. It's even harder now. Bikes might not be the problem for everyone that they are for me, but they are a big problem for me. Also, looking at my 27pt Ravenwing Bikers and comparing them to 27pt Scatterbikes is just insulting. This is where my "jumped the shark" comment came from. There is no justification for that disparity.

I've already said I don't plan on selling all my models. I 'm not going to quit playing friendly games. I am going to skip 2 or 3 tournaments this year and see if there are releases that make my units more playable. Christmas and my birthday a month later are where my hobby dollars come from, so I'll revisit 40k then and see if there are units that I want to buy and use that will level the field somewhat. Thanks for your advice.

True dark eldar are not strong, the last codex felt like they got nerfed :(. IG are still viable but as you said will be very hard to counter the eldar. Only thing i could think off is a lot of units with autocannons or anything that gives you massive rolls…. You are right tho, the game should be tactical. Not who brings the most cheese on the table. Each year the game feels like is just turning into a big cash grabbing cycle. I love 40k but if the game keeps going the way it is right now I might have to quit. The amount of money required to buy a good decent army is pretty high and the actual tactical portion has been slowly disappearing. On top of that the rules are changing way to quick with codexes dropping every 2 years or less. Plus the expansions which could be released in odd format online…. I started playing infinity, Star Wars xwing and star wars armada (very tactical game) and I found these games are quicker and have a lot of tactical elements that unfortunely are missing in 40k. I hope GW sees this and starts to turn things around, if not they are going to lose another fan and probably many more.

Woods I apologize you meant dark Angels. I got a small rave wing army and yes the bike cost compared to the eldar ones is just dumb. Those bikes are T 5 but do not come close to the eldar ones. The feel no pain rule from a command squad with a. Banner cost a lot and will kill other options in your Army so I know what you talking about.

Wait, we're getting another Eldar codex? That's a pretty fast turnaround. I know a few people who are going to be pretty sad if they can't field their wraith army.

There is a Wraith formation though that is pretty darn good, although no way to spam Spiritseer.

I wonder if Wraith still can take serpents, and if the Spiritseer can make them twinlinked in that case.

Its crazy fast. The last one still sits on my shelf, opened maybe once for a full read. Time to switch completly to digital for me.

So in summary some of the important points.

Serpents get jink as a 4+, a 5++ invun and a single use shooting shield but can still use the shield defensively every turn unless the shield is shot then its gone for the game..

Wraith Constructs became very powerful. Strength D wraith cannons, modified D scythes that wreck armour or infantry, and Rage for Wraith Blades.
Wraith Knights are probably point for point the most dominating unit in 40K even as a LOW they will be common.
Bikes got heavy weapons across the board. Rendering the reduction in Serpent shooting a moot point.
Elder shooting and movement are still the best in 40K.
Host benefits are specialised but very good, e.g. giving Wraiths re-rolls to hit if a Spirit seer is around makes Wraiths very powerful. BS 5 Avengers etc etc.
Scorpions got a significant boost mandiblasters wound on a 4+ regardless of T values and have a 2+ or 3+ cover save till they fight.
Exarchs got 2 wounds now. Swooping hawks got a flyer attack thats haywire and hits on a 4+
Seers and Warlocks harness warp charges on a 3+ and seers are well protected from perils.
Warp spiders got better

The D weapons are nasty, but they're not what scares me. People are making D weapon spam lists, and that's cute but it's not this book's true power.

The wall of scatter laser fire from a swarm of jetbikes, backed by hemlocks or wraithknights for hard target removal? That's pretty terrifying.

Wraithknights are… man. Crazy good. If the point cost is accurate, they badly outclass the overwhelming majority of Lords of War, and will be auto-includes for a lot of Eldar lists. There are few better ways to spend that sum of points, in terms of durability, speed, and killing power.

Amusingly, I'm gonna wager most of the Aspects, despite the buffs, are still gonna be strictly "for funsies" units; the new Eldar book is gonna be a lot like the old one; few of the units in it look bad, but a couple are so strong you're a fool to not take them in the largest quantities possible.

Too bad for all the armies that got no-frills updates in the last year or so. I really had hoped that GW was planning to redo everyone so that 7e books will all be pretty balanced against each other, but I think Eldar are gonna stay top dogs, and all the armies that are largely irrelevant in competitive play will stay at the kids' table.

yes, I take a look at the laundry list of special rules and abilities that each of the eldar units is supposed to come with and then I look at my dark eldar & think "huh, looks like this one was shunted out in about two weeks time…"

I saw a post recently that said "never buy a GW army that has the word "dark" in it." I wish I had heard that advice years ago.

Played 2 games today with the above information. Where it I have been playing Iyanden for as long as the supplement has been out. My opponent has been a long time victim of my Eldar army so no real surprises from any of the D weapons.
Serpents are a solid transport but shoot much less, they are just as hard to kill because the shield is seldom used

Aspects are really solid and play well to their fluff. I really enjoyed running two Iyanden/Biel-Tan aspect type lists

Scatter bikes are not as strong as imagined, its simple enough to get them to fail a LD test and run. You are more likely to see 3-5 in a squad with 2-3 heavy weapons, the rest are ablative wounds.

Wraith Scythes are the bomb! it doesn't matter what you send at them they will utterly destroy it. Elder easily control the movement phase with fast MSU to make sure opponents can't sacrifice a unit to soak the scythes. overwatch.

Wraith Knights are virtually unstoppable short of using Grav Centurions or spamming a bunch of S8 shooting nothing bothers them. I ran a Sword and Shield knight he was as strong a predicted.

Spirit Seers on bikes are pivotal support now.

So, just so I understand this right, and I'm probably wrong, Eldar went from "most competitive" to "unapologetically broken as H**l". I mean, D-weapons aren't exactly uncommon these days (knights, santic powers, etc) but now they can have them all over. Short range? So what? Eldar mobility is better than ever. Wraithknight now a LOW? Its now immune to the one reliable way to put it down, plus its pathetically easy to spam them regardless. And on top of that, the various aspect warriors got buffed significantly.

I used to feel guilty about playing Tau. With this, not anymore.

Have you seen the recent competitive lists? a lot of them feature gargantuan and super heavy plus the usual bunch of Imp Knights. D weapons in the hands of infantry units will curtail this trend. I would care a lot if you just trashed my fell blade or Imp Knight with an infantry unit. However to quote a mate 'Anything kills an orc and the orc don't care'.
Eldar mobility is probably the best in the book and Wraith Knights are very fast I play them I know. I can tell you right now that there are several reliable ways to drop a wraith Knight and a lot of them work on lots of other things too. Psychic Shriek works well, spammed Grav works well, Spammed melta, Spammed S8/S7 shooting works well. Necrons can wound anything with a 6 on their weapons at infantry level. Just putting it out there guys as an Iyanden player who has run Wraith Knights they are better now yes but a single WK goes down thats why I ran two of them. Multiple Wraith Knights are not a friendly option I give you that, but LOW usually means just one will be more common.

Why would you take your Wraithknight into Melta, Grav, or Psychic Shriek range? With a 36" range on them guns and 12" ignores terrain movement, you should be able to avoid any of those weapons fairly easily. If drop pods are the problem, then just put it in reserve.

If you're using it as a gun platform you're probably doing it wrong. 2 single Str D shots without twin-linked, Ignores Cover or anything at BS4 for 300pts does not impress.

You have another 1500pts or more of your army to deal with the few units that can seriously threaten your Wraithknight. It's a 300pt unit that is impervious to a lot of the games weapons and pretty hard to bring down with the rest. I don't see why you would get within the range of the few units that can damage it when it isn't necessary. There should be plenty of other units to stomp and smash, unless you've already killed them all.

Misfortune, Enfeeble, DA Rad Grenades, combat with an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor. All of those make the Wraithknight able to be damaged, if not exactly vulnerable, to most every unit on the board.

People are acting like there are no counters to a Wraithknight at all. It's a bitch to kill, sure, but it's no way 'impervious to a lot of the games weapons'.

There are counters to the Wraithknight and I'm not really all that bothered by it to be honest. It is criminally undercosted, but there are bigger offenders among the reports we've been getting. When you do see a Wraithknight it is probably going to be behind 1500 points of over-powered BS that you are going to have to deal with. If you've brought enough Wraithknight counters that your opponent can't avoid them, then you the rest of his list is going to probably crush you.

It is impervious to bolters, lasguns, flamers, and wyverns, unless you are counting on out Psychicing your Eldar opponent. A large infantry blob with lascannons can kill it with "bring it down", but the majority of that units weapons will be lasguns that won't scratch it. Just like the majority of a Marine squad's bolters won't scratrch it.

From what I've heard so far, the Wraithknight might not even be a competitive choice in the Eldar codex. I don't know why everybody is keying in on it, defenders and whiners alike. Maybe it's becasue of it's physical size.

What? IMO, the Wraithknight is a serious contender for best unit in the game right now. Anyone saying that it's not that deadly because it only has 2 D shots is forgetting that against hard targets, those are probably about as deadly as 4 Lascannons. That's not a dominant amount of firepower, but it's good enough considering that it's still a butcher in Assault, very fast, and very tough for its points. Consider, for example, that Riptides are not bad, and then consider how much this outperforms a Riptide with the FNP upgrade.

Remember, also, that one main way to laugh at Jetbikes is to put up something that they can't really harm such as a Screamerstar, or an AV13 wall like Necrons can do, or Predators, or Soulgrinders… and that these guys smash these walls. So I really can't see any competitive Eldar list without at least one to break the shield walls that Jetbikes may struggle with.

Fire Dragons in Falcons seem extremely good at taking out armor. It's not that Wraithknights aren't good, it's just that the Eldar codex seems to be loaded with so much cheese, it might not be the cheesiest.

This mass of bikes I expect to see will only take up about 1/2 to 2/3 of a list. A good amount of the rest will be anti-armor or anti-air, I expect.

I like Fire Dragons, but I have a problem with considering them nearly as dangerous as the Wraithknight, and it's the same problem as with Wraithguard:

You get out, you smoke a unit. You have to do this at short range, and then you have a Falcon and some short-range units that are not really CC- capable. The Wraithguard can at least hold up a bit in CC, but aren't likely to actually win it, and the Fire Dragons are just going to die. So, basically, it's largely a suicide mission for either squad, even though the opponent at least has to dedicate some firepower/assault to finish the job.

The Wraithknight, on the other hand, threatens hard targets on Turn 1, and without exposing itself to short-range firepower if it doesn't want to. It also adds a "keep away" sign for anything that is afraid of S10 plus Stomps. It's not as good at the specific mission of "make a hard target disappear", but it's better at "make multiple hard targets disappear" simply because it will live longer.

This. Fire dragons will kill a hard target dead, but then probably get wasted. (they get another +1 on the vehicle damage table, because they can pull the triggers on their meltas harder than anyone else in the galaxy!)

The wraithknight is just gonna float around, picking off choice targets with his magical D lasers and swooping in to monkeystomp anything the rest of the Eldar army somehow cannot kill or needs to hold up.

That's usually the strategy, but most tarpits either depend on being really hard to wound (Screamerstar), or are relatively tough but SLOW blobs (Zombies). Well, Stomps are very dangerous to the hard-to-wound units, and the slow blobs are not going to catch a Jump unit before all of the Bikes shoot it to pieces.

Nurgle Spawn might do it since with T6 it has to work wound by wound, and they can spread out enough that it will take several 6s on Stomps to clear them. Hounds are unlikely, because they can't wound it, so they will lose combat and fade to Instability (actually, the Khorne Daemonkin version might hold up). Same issue with Seekers or Screamers. You could bypass the Morale issue by adding in some HQs for some Codices, but then you're making a tarpit unit that costs about as much as the WK, and ends up doing nothing all game but blocking the WK for a few turns until it gets Stomped flat.

A few lists can Infiltrate or Scout some tarpit squads forward in order to corner the WKs and tarpit them with slow blobs, but those aren't lists that are generally competitive.

Yeah, I'm having a hard time thinking of a unit that can both catch the wraithknight and actually pin it down for long.

Plus, you're not just trying to a tarpit a wraithknight in isolation; you've got the rest of the Eldar army to deal with as well. A unit of nurgle spawn making a beeline for his wraithknight won't reach its target, or will suffer heavy casualties before it does; Eldar have no shortage of guns that are real threats to nurgle spawn. You can bring more spawn, but that defeats the purpose of a tarpit; at that point you're approaching or exceeding the cost of the wraithknight just to lock it down (all your efforts can be undone with a couple of "lol rolled a 6" on stomps also).

I don't think tarpitting wraithknights is a live option. You're gonna have to kill it.

I worked up an 1850pt CAD Eldar army of 1 Farseer on a bike, 3 Warlocks on bikes, 3x Wraithguard in Wave Serpents, and 6x Windriders with Scatter Lasers, and one Wraithknight. Tarpitting that Wraithknight is definitely a live option.

No Khorne Daemonkin either. Oh well, it's not like either of those codexes really matter in competitive play anymore.

The Eldar are an astonishingly crass and indolent species. The galaxy was in their grasp, and they let it slip through their disgusting xenos finger-equivalents.

I'm personally very happy about the meta changing to incorporate strength D in abundance. It means armies will shift slowly away from 2++ deathstars or ultra resilient units. Essentially away from expensive models. The best counter to strength D is keeping your units cheap and having lots of them (MSU Immediately springs to mind). I welcome our Strength D overlords. May you watch over us and impose "Balance" of a sort.

"Strength D templates? nice try, i play orks. those are some expensive flamers youre carrying"

"It means armies will shift slowly away from 2++ deathstars"

I don't know what meta you're playing in but I'm pretty sure they're not a thing any more and haven't been for some time.

Aside from the fact tha Nick Nanavati just won adepticon using a dual plague star/screamer star.

I was just using 2++ deathstars as it is something recognizable. I'm also referring to Leman rush spam (Pask Star), Plague Drone star, Wraithknight spam, Dreadknight spam. Imperial Knights. Any sort of unit which is ultra resilient and gives armies trouble dealing with. Strength D keeps people honest in that sense.

Provided Strength D doesn't come in the form of large blast or apoc templates in then everything's good.

Yes, thank goodness that the centrepiece models players have spent money and time to create can now be shelved in favour of having to paint up fifty more standard infantry models. Truly, this is the best of all possible worlds! : p

Excellent!! Another convert! It's good to see more are joining the Strength D following. It is a glorious day! 😛

ye and what about opther armys that rely on vehicle? are you truly tell that make more op things to make other op less op is the solutiion to balance op thing generaly????
Best would be NERF op units not buff others, also if it had be 1 low none would complain about that but being able to have 3+ otf make just stupid, you can basicaly have 6+ stmp things otf that do turn 2 d3 stomp each, at least IK could explode and 7 results, those thing do not either have problem with 6 wouds that need to be removed 1 by 1, strengh D are not main problem here , it's s d+ stomp+ MC + move 12 that is

Yes I am. 6+ Wraithknights might well be a thing. Everyone also thought 5 Imperial Knights at 1850 would be a thing. Do you see that in abundance stomping across tournaments taking best General? No. you don't. And you won't see 6+ Wraithknights doing it either. They are affected by Instant Death weapons (so D3 wounds come off). They are affected by AP 1-3 weapons and lose wounds without saves. Mass Lascannons destroy them. Grav weapons destroy them. Hell, assaulting them with rending destroys them. Stick your vehicles in cover if you're so worried.

This whole, oh the world is coming to an end because Wraithknights can be spammed through formations is ridiculous and over blown. Unlikely you see many, if any, people at all run more than 3.

The smart people aren't panicking because some fools will spam WKs.
Some are panicking because of how good the combination of Scatterbikes plus WKs is, with additional flavoring and specific jobs handled by Fire Dragons, Wraithguard, Swooping Hawks, and the two Flyers.
Eldar are really really good, and largely because they have multiple contenders for "best in class", not just the WK at "best non-flying MC". They can contend in best Flyer, best Bike, and best Troop (bikes). That's without even considering how good their HQs are.

I look at the new scatter bikes and I immediately compare them to the old Wave Serpent. Because people spammed wave serpents back in the day and they will spam the new bikes.

Take for example 10 Jetbikes versus 2 Wave Serpents. Bikes all have scatter lasers and the serpents have scatter laser and shuriken cannon.

Against AV 12 vehicles Jetbikes do 4.47 HP's. Wave Serpents do 4.4 HP's. If that vehicle has a 4+ cover save those bikes only do 2.23 HP's. Wave Serpents do 3.39HP's. Against AV 13 Wave Serpents do 1 HP against nothing from the scatter bikes.

Against Toughness 4 infantry, Scatter bikes do 11 wounds. Wave Serpents do 11 wounds.

So against killing vehicles Wave Serpents are largely better because they can ignore potential cover saves. Defensively? Wave Serpents hands down. They don't suffer from LD checks. Small arms fire doesn't hurt them at all. Things like Wyverns murder jetbikes. 10 Jetbikes is also a massive foot print so there's no hiding them. Wave Serpents can also weather a first turn fairly well, downgrading almost all pens to glances. Wave Serpents also do not lose firepower unless they are destroyed or have a weapon destroyed result. Scatter bikes lose immediate effectiveness when they lose models.

Now you can argue that you have to pay extra for the Dire Avengers. True, but that also adds to your T4 infantry damage. Also, those points you'd spend on Dire Avengers can be compared to the points you now have to spend on flyer support since Scatter Bikes do crap damage to flyers without a reroll.

Overall, the old Wave Serpent is stronger than the new Scatter Bikes. So spam away, you'll notice awfully quick how easy they are to counter.

As for the Wraithknight support, what changed defensively? 5+ FNP. That's it. You don't see a lot of poison running around murdering wraithknights (outside of Plague Drones). They are still affected by ID weapons to some degree and if your tactic didn't involve using poison it will still be as effective. The stock wraith knight went up 55 points. Which means taking 2 costs you 110 points more than before. Means less on the table and less for your opponent to have to worry about.

Do I think Eldar should have gotten a nerf from their last book? Yes, absolutely. I also think that Wraithknights should be 1 per army. But, this is way overblown. Play some games against the new Eldar and you'll quickly realize that Scatter Bikes are easily to dealt with and Wraithknights will be handled the same way.

It's interesting to compare the Imperial Knight Paladin (375pts) to the new Wraithknight (295pts). They both move 12", Stomp, and so on. But the Paladin lays down two pie plates compared to the Wraithknights tarts, gets an SD weapon in close combat without losing any firepower, is immune to S5-6 from the front, wholly immune to sniper, poison and fleshbane (Wraithknight is immune to Haywire, bit of a wash), gets an Invulnerable save without reducing firepower, and so on. The Wraithknight is a Jump unit, but it needs to land more than 1" away from enemies and allies of convenience, and its I5 only really benefits it when it takes the Wraithblade. In essence it's faster and more vulnerable – it's an Eldar knight.

however the imperial knight is slowed by cover and can't jump over things. the i5 strength ten in combat was already good enough to kill an IK and it can very easily get a 4+ cover if you have ruins[even if they don't have a base, it can land on a second floor no worries] you also neglected to mention that an explodes results adds d3 more hull points onto the 1 hull point scored, unlike instant death which is just d3 in total.

I've run 5 knights at 2 6 round tournies and I had many moment wishing I was fielding 6th ed wraith knights instead.

I'm not at all doom and gloom about the 7th ed dex, I already have lots of fun things to try vs them and am looking forwards to it.

I don't think so. What bugs me is the SUPER POWER of Flying Monstrous Creatures. Not even Strength D can deal with them.

No? WK is not a Flying Monstrous Creature, is a Jump Gargantuan Creature. So with ranged weapons you still hit it with your normal BS. Being a Jump unit only means that the WK ignores the terrain

**Clicks on 3++ for the first time in months**

**skims rumors about yet another eldar codex jump in power**

**posts another army to Ebay**

**uses money to buy more Malifaux models**

Personally I'm enjoying the traditional whine-fest that accompanies the release of a major 40k codex, and by release I mean the rumours that have been repeated everywhere else first. Lack of context, such as the Codex: Skitarii that was released recently with plenty of AA, and wraith-killing gear, and AP3 and cover-reducing stuff and then people complain about 27pt jetbikes with Scatter Lasers?

I don't think most people are running Skitarii yet. As I said on another site, this 27pt jetbike will kill my 27 pt bikes 75% of the time and mine will kill theirs 15% of the time, not counting the additional range they have. All the alpha male BS about whining and crying aren't going to make me play a game against that. I'll play in friendly games, but I am not going to go to tournament and pay an entry fee to get stomped. I'll be fine, I can find something else to do. Having presumably grown men imply I'm a stupid sissy for not wanting to play their game is kind of entertaining. It's also been fun to watch people search for a couple of possible counters to this cheese and then act like that solves everything. The "75 point Land Raiders would be fine because they can be killed by droppod melta" kind of arguments make me chuckle, as have the "we won't know that the wraithknight is undercosted until we play several games" arguments. I'm kind of done chuckling, though. I have to pick out a Malifaux crew.

I guess it's hard not to imply you're some sort of emotional child by your reaction to the release of Craftworld Eldar. How about instead of wasting your time complaining, you sit down, have a cup of tea, and develop a counter-strategy? Maybe, just maybe, the sky isn't falling and you can take this as an opportunity to get better at the game?

No. I'm not going to go spend a bunch of money and time to stay competitive in this game. I'll spend my money and time as I see fit. Other than the opportunity to insult somebody you've never met, why does it matter to you? So there is one less player at my local tournaments. I'm sure they'll surive. So I don't spend my fairly limited hobby money on Games Workshop minis, they'll be fine too. Am I really missing an opportunity to get better with what were already barely competitive armies? I can live with that. Are you insulted that I think GW screwed up the opportunity to bring Eldar more in line with the other factions and have instead powered up an already overpowered codex? I'm sorry, but that's what I think. Belittling me won't get me to stop voicing my opinion.
I don't like this codex. It will make diffcult games even harder. I'll just sit tight for now and see if something changes in the future. The sky is falling? That's news to me. I'll sip my tea and spend my free time doing something else. It was past time for me to diversify my hobby anyway.

You could have just said that to begin with. All that anger is going to eat you up inside bro.

You're not any better you know? What's with all the frustration about a Codex? As if this game had been in any way balanced before or as if you had had any chance to keep your army competitivbe without spending a ton of money or borrowing crap. Nothing has changed.

I had a list I felt comfortable playing and this has rendered that list and any band aids I had on hand ineffective. That's frustrating, but I have a choice. I can buy some stuff I don't really want and spend a lot of money and time chasing some gimmick to counter this or I can just accept that I am not going to be competitive for a bit and see what happens next. I'm choosing to sit out for a while. Maybe I've been spoiled, because I've been able to shrug off most of the changes over the last year by having a solid list with enough tactical options to give me a fighting chance. That's what I want from this game and I am disappointed that is gone. It might have been an illusion to begin with, but that's hardly an arguement good enough to justify throwing good money after bad.

I don't have anything against you or Nomeny personally. I am annoyed by people trying to tell me that this is fine and I am overreacting. I'm reacting in a way that I feel is appropriate for my situation. If you guys want to be aggressive and insulting that only reflects on you, not on me. It's a shame really, because you both seem like intelligent people who for some reason feel the need to resort to mocking people for daring not to like a GW product. For what it's worth, I didn't complain about the last Eldar Codex, or the Tau Codex. I complained a little about the last Space Marine Codex because I play Dark Angels and it kind of stole our thunder, but I'm hardly the guy that bitches each time a strong codex comes out.

Damn, Panda, I'm +1ing way too many of your comments in this thread.


You are correct. We are mortal enemies! Battle must commence. And it shall be epic like Optimus vs Megatron. And I don't mean those crappy movies. Unless you don't like those movies in which case I shall defend them! Ha! Take that. Also I had intercourse with your mom! Well I thought about it. But I'm a panda. And we kinda don't get arround to it. So I didn't. technically. But its the thought that counts!

ye in fact how do feel about A WHOLE ARMY with fnp6+ relentless full of AAA+++ vp2/vp3 thins that can move, and shoot what it want and can EVEN increase his cheesy level tot he start with a +3 BS AND LATER +WS3.
it seems skitare have so much rule to fill the spot of black legion, csm normal codex and other 3-4 renegades supplements

As with all codexs I will wait until I see it against me on the tabletop before I make a decision. Yeh in writing it all sounds tough to beat but you probably wont face all of these in one game. Am I right in saying there will only be one Wraithknight going forward? If so I am atleast happy about that!

I know I'm outside of the loop but well. Looking through the codex, I was more impressed with the Farseer than anything else.

Why, yes, let's take the Farseer, a ML3 psyker with the best power selection ever, that cares little for Perils and in an army that can generate a bajillion charges. Now, let's give him the ability to re-roll dice (not rolls, not failures/successes, dice) for psychic stuff. Now, let's make a relic that nullify the one weakness of the awesomesauce powers available (high charge costs) and let's price it just about nothing. NOW, let's make a rather cheap formation that allows the guy to cast easier/more.

Because, as anyone who has played 40K in the last 20 years knows, the Seerstar needed the buff.

Clearly seerstar needed the buff! 😛

Warlocks did get a nerf to their mastery level though. They are almost like brotherhood of psykers. 1-4 warlocks count as ML 1. 5-9 count as ML 2 I believe. So in reality max warlock squad with 2 farseer's only generates 8-9 dice.

Nah, they still generates one Warp Charge each and the Mastery Level thing only limit the number of spells they know. They get that exception because they needed it, I guess.

Those warp charges in a conclave are harnessed on a 3+ though. Nine dice will return you six 3+'s. Eldar can lower the warp charge for a power required by 1 when using the spirit stone of Anath'lan.
Pretty easy to generate WC and harness WC3 powers but harder for any other psyker to deny.

The Culexus is going to gain more traction from this, but it just can’t keep up with them on Jetbikes to prevent WC generation.

Its a one trick pony and requires an Autarch to ensure you get on the board soon enough. I use Wraith Scythes a lot and its the potential threat that bothers people right form T1 not the deep striking one. Serpents can still move 30" in one turn thats the real worry for most. Having said that what ever they drop near is gone burger.

Most of the fire power people seem to be in angst about is either short range or on 1 wound relatively easy to remove expensive models, right?

So, the Wraithknight is pretty solid. Pretty sure we've been facing hard to kill Knights for awhile now.

SS got nerfed, and yet people are finding even new and interesting ways to bitch about GW? Must be Friday.

Seems like a solid Dex. I don't get the hyperbole, but I never do, so nothing has changed there, I guess.

Knights are more expensive, and more vulnerable; with rear AV10 they can be downed by a few melta hits that get lucky on the vehicle damage table, but against those same melta weapons the WK is basically AV12 all around, needs to be stripped of wounds one by one, and that's before you get into shenanigans with other Eldar options. Invisible Wraithknights? Wraithknights surrounded by cheap Guardians for cover saves? Fortuned/Guided Wraithknights?

But they've had access to all of that before. Their two guns are just a _little_ more killy, and they are little more resilient.

World ending? Doesn't seem like it.

Honestly with most tournaments limiting Lords of War in some way I expect to see a lot less of them, at most one in many cases banned completly. Wraithknights went from a constant issue to consider to an obscure problem for me. One that only shows up then other Lords of War do in which case I already have to bring a solution to those. Now the rest of the Codex we will see. But if Lords of War are allowed I might as well worry about a Phantom Titan.

how dare you speak with well thought out process. you sir stand against the internet hate. how am I to sustain myself on the tears of the weary when your speaking sense.

thanks for being a voice of reason.


AV12. plus you already said if they get lucky 2 melta shots can take IK out but not WK.

I could say the same thing about instant death if its lucky it can kill a WK but has to strip hull points off one at a time.

And how many things in the game can cause ID on a T8 model?

Mea culpa on the rear armour, though. Not even sure why I bothered to point it out, melta in a decent range can threaten a Knight regardless of armour facing. I blame the early morning posting. : p

Not many _Garnet….. ironically the best counter to a Wraith Knight with guns is a Wraith Knight without them.

I think Wraithguard and Grav weapons are the two bestest. Wraithknights are too vulnerable to a Wraithknight's shooting.

Anything Str5/6 can strip wounds off of a Wraithknight, but not an Imperial Knight. Misfortune threatens a Wraithknight far more than an Imperial Knight. Grav Guns are far more threatening to a Wraithknight than an Imperial Knight. Rad Grenades have no effect on an Imperial Knight.

Those 'shenanigans with Eldar options' are basically all things that *any* army can do. You can surround a Knight with little dudes (not that it will give either a cover save – Knights are pretty big, with most of their mass in the torso, and Wraithknights are so absolutely honkin' huge that you might not get cover if you surround them with tanks let alone Guardians), you can cast Invisibility on a Knight, you can cast Prescience on it which gives it re-rolls in combat. Imperials also have a few benefits of their own that they can give a Knight (access to repairing gear, which is perhaps more reliable and certainly safer to use than Renewer, Power Field Generators, almost certainly more I've missed).

Erm, anything S6 can strip HP from a Knight, around the back. Not reliably, perhaps, but then you can't reliably wound a T8 model with a S5 weapon, either. Or S6 for that matter, and even S7 isn't any kind of reliable. And of the Knight and the Wraithknight, only one of them gets an armour save against those kinds of high-volume low-threat weapons. There's also the matter of Gargantuan Creatures being more resistant to Poison/Sniper than Superheavy Vehiclces are to Haywire, and that the Wraithknight benefits from simply having intervening models for its cover save, while the Knight needs to be 25% obscured. And on the offensive front, the Knight has 3 I4 D attacks while the Wraithknight gets 4 I5 S10 attacks that ignore all armour saves and re-roll armour penetration, so I know who I'd put my money on there, too.

I feel like, somehow or other, there's a difference between needing S5 from the front of a Wraithknight and S6 from the rear of an Imperial Knight. Both will give a reliable wound/hp 1/6 times for the IK and 2/36 for the WK if not AP3 and 1/6 if AP3. The Knight gets its Ion Shield save from either the front or a side for AP3 weapons.

Gargantuan Creatures are about as resistant to Fleshbane as Superheavy Vehicles are vulnerable to Haywire.

Regarding lose combat, the WK only gets to re-roll armour penetration if making a Smash attack using the Smash rules, meaning it only gets one attack. Attacking an IK from the front means the WK gets 5 attacks on the charge, hitting on 4+, so 2-3 hits. Out of three hits, 1-2 will glance/penetrate, and then it's 1/6 chance of any causing an additional D3. The Knight will hit with 1-2 D-strength hits, with 4/6 chance of D3 wounds, and 1/6 chance of D6 wounds. The advantage definitely goes to the IK in this case.

You'll pardon me if I confidentially bet on the IK in such an encounter.

Where the WK takes a Wraithblade, to gain the edge, then it's sacrificing its firepower.

Monstrous Creatures have Smash, which means that all their attacks ignore armour saves and re-roll armour penetration; they can further choose to trade their regular attacks for a single S10 attack, but that's a separate clause from the rules regarding their standard swings.

No, re-roll to penetration is part of the Smash attack. (Single S10 attack with re-roll to penetration.)

Not to pick nits, but you forgot the FNP. S5 only wounds the WK 1/27 if not AP3 and 1/9 if AP3.

I hope Vypers were boosted in some way so they're not completely overshadowed by two regular jetbikes with scatter lasers.

Perhaps vypers can get underslung special weapons other than the shurikannon too? Drastically reduced point cost? Some kind of upgrade?

I love the image of Jetbikes and vypers swooping across the battlefield together, so I hope there's still some reason to take the vyper alongside their little bros.

As for the scorpion Exarch, damn he was designed to kill ork nobs and warbosses with his bonus attacks based on initiative difference and access to high strength cc weapons. A pity the banshee exarch didn't get that power eh?

10 points cheaper base.

The claw is still the best power fist, and team him up with Jain Zar (-5 I/WS to models within 6") to make chaos players cry. Why yes, I have 9 A on the charge, hitting on 3+ and wounding on 2+.

Everyone except Chaos is going to refuse the challenge, and do you *really* want to make the Chaos players cry even more?

Yeah, I don't think the codex is an crazy as everyone makes it seem. Str D still needs to roll the hard 6 in order to be truly scary, otherwise cover and invulnerable saves are still solid.

The bikes are great but ld 8 is really brutal. I've tried to make the large bike squads work for years. Killing stuff was never the problem. Keeping them on the table is the issue. your only option is usually the farseer, so now a 10 man unit is like 400 points. 450 with the warlock. Heaven forbid you get stuck in hth…

And you are only talking 40 S6 shots… which warp spiders have been able to do for awhile, the game has a huge proliferation of AV 13 all of a sudden.

The d scythe wraith guard do seems really crazy strong, but again they aren't really cheap either. So no matter how you cut it, you don't really have much on the table with this codex.

And finally the loss of the waveserpent as a gun boat is a huge deal for eldar. The fire power goes way down for any list that doesn't want to walk which is pretty much every list.

It's not just the loss of the Wave Serpent as a gunboat, but it's also the loss of the Holofield as a cover bonus.

Bikers are still 17pts each basic so 170 for 10, 270 if you give them all cannons or scatter lasers and the farseer has lost death mission and gained instead a power that gives all within 12" fearless and adamantium will, so for 300 you can get 10 bikers and a bikeseer for 500 you can get 20 bikers and a seer and 3 heavy weapons, and you can bubble them to never run.

In regards to the D weapons, imagine multi wound and vehicle models, with a unit of wraithguard minimum you're likely to get 3/4 hits, and those hits will average about 2 armour ignoring wounds per wraith with equal opportunity to do nothing or D6+6 wounds or insta obliterating a vehicle…for 150pts…each turn,

And you can get two 5 man teams and two wave serpents to pull them in if you ditch the heavy bike weapons for another 500pts, that gives you two tanks, two 5 man D weapon squads, two 10 man Bike teams and a Psyker character who can buff or pain…all for 1000pts I can't see any way at all how this is balanced or how you're meant to stand against it with any other 'dex