Ultramarines Chapter Tactic

Ultramarines and the Redemptor Dreadnought: First Look

It’s not long now until the Space Marines codex is out, bringing new units and new tactics to the Adeptus Astartes. Today, we’re getting a chance to look at the colossal Redemptor Dreadnought, one of the most exciting units in the forthcoming codex, with a live demonstration onWarhammer TV. Studio Manager James Karch will be adding the might of this colossal war-engine to his Sons of Guilliman – you’ll get to witness first-hand just how destructive it can be. James will also be using the new Ultramarines Chapter Tactics – you’ll want to tune in and catch the action for a deep dive into what the new codex can bring to a Space Marines army. To give you an idea of what you can expect, here’s a quick overview of what the Redemptor Dreadnought and the Ultramarines can do in the game:


Redemptor Dreadnoughts are the apex of Space Marine warfare, combining the ancient expertise of a renowned hero with new developments in Adeptus Mechanicus technology. Redemptor Dreadnoughts are the largest and most powerful of their brethren, rivalling even the venerable Leviathan pattern and trading out its older cousin’s atomantic shielding for more weapons. Colossal bulk indicates prodigious strength and belies a surprising turn of speed, outpacing their smaller brethren and capable of tearing apart even daemonsand bio-titans with one enormous powered fist. This is combined with vast array of weapons designed to allow the Redemptor to focus on a specific target or remain terrifyingly versatile, from the anti-flyer Icarus rocket pod to the armour-melting macro plasma incinerator to the rolling thunder of the heavy onslaught gatling cannon. The Redemptor, like all Dreadnoughts, can also make use of Chapter Tactics, meaning an Ultramarines Redemptor is going to be very very dangerous – over two turns you could shoot, charge, fall back and shoot again. Nasty!

The Ultramarines are masters of strategy, combining their gene-given gifts with absolute discipline and the transformation of warfare into something between science and art, honouring theirstudious Primarch with an expertise in strategy and tactics. In game, the Ultramarines are one of the most tactically rewarding chapters, combining a huge range of Special Characters with the ability to fall back and shoot universally – like all Chapter Tactics, this will apply to your Infantry, Bikers and Dreadnoughts. This is a flexible and useful ability that offensively will allow Ultramarines players huge amounts of control over the board, tying enemy squads up in combat one turn, then destroying them massed firepower the next.

Defensively, Ultramarines will be incredibly hard to pin down; ranged units like Hellblasters will be able to launch withering hails of counter-fire on units that charge them, while fast moving units can block the enemy before retreating to safety with a deadly parting shot. Ultramarines units also receive a bonus to their Leadership, insulating your units against Morale or dangerous psychic powers and helping to guarantee your master plans go off without a hitch. Ultramarines also have a huge number of characters to choose from, including the legendary primarch Roboute Guillimanand old favourites like Marneus Calgar. The Ultramarines are also getting a unique stratagem, warlord trait and relic to allow you to further customise your army.

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...

58 responses to Ultramarines Chapter Tactic

Well, I am glad things are going to be balanced….

Ok, here is hoping that the dred is costed appropriately (most of the primaris stuff is) and that the chapter tactic thing takes a lot of command points or something.

This codex is reportedly going to cover ten Chapters and another nine codices are supposedly planned within the year. So I suspect that Chapter Tactics and their equivalents will have no point cost independent of the models themselves.

We know four of the ten codices will be Death Guard, “Vanilla” Chaos Space Marines, Grey Knights, and “Vanilla” Space Marines. My best guess is that Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves will be given standalone codices, just due to inertia as they’ve had individual codices in every edition since Second (when codices were introduced, although the First and Ninth Legions shared a book originally). I think they could easily all be put into one book, but I don’t think GW will want to do that.

Not sure what you’d think Chapter Tactics would have any cost? Have they ever? The “cost” is usually that taking the chapter tactic you want limits your choices of special characters.

No, there is not. But there is a rule that says if you call them anything other than Ultramarines, then they cease to have the [Ultramarines] keyword.

So, the UMs have the best special characters.. will they have the worst chapter tactics? Because it looks really good. I hope the other chapter and legion traits compare.

I don’t know if they have “the best,” they certainly do have a lot of them… But if you’re not really interested in the short range shooty / mêlée-shoot-mêlée two step gameplay that the Ultramarines’ chapter tactic and special characters are getting these bonuses with, then they aren’t “the best.”

Presumably, the Chapter Tactics for the others will be equally well-suited for enhancing the play style of those Chapters. High Marshal Helbrecht and Co. will get a tactic that encourages the smash-mouth style of the Black Templars; the White Scars will get something for their blitz bike style; and so forth.

Besides Roboute I don’t think their special characters are nearly as good as Pedro Kantor, Helbrecht, or Grimaldus, though Sicarius is pretty strong.

They have Rowboat, but aside from him they're not all that impressive. I also expect that a lot of chapters will have specific limitations on what units they can field, in the same way that the Chaos Legions listed in the index do.

Marneus Calgar is basically a reskinned Draigo, or vice versa. A little tougher, actually, since halving dmg is better than going from a 4++ to a 3++ save. But he's not a psyker. *shrug* He's a lot like Draigo, is what I'm saying, and Draigo is pretty awesome.

They also have Chronus and Scout-Sergeant Telion. Not “punch a hole in the world” heroes but very good force multipliers for the units they’ll be attached to.

So does RG. There will be a creep while armies don't have these special abilities / extra options but with 10 getting released before Christmas, there will be a very rapid turnaround compared to the 3-4 months we are used to in the past.

3-4 months? Clearly you've never been a Sisters of Battle or a Dark Eldar player. ^_^,

I do wonder who the first ten codices will be… We know "Vanila" Space Marines and Grey Knights, plus "Vanilaa" Chaos Marines and Death Guard. Who will the other six be? My gut is Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Imperial Guard, Adeptus Mechanicus, Craftworld Eldar, and Tau.

For a new release codex? Yes. We'd generally get 2-4 per year and yes, there were decades in between some.

Tau will not be part of the initial 10.All of them have gone to print already so we will likely see the same errors reprinted.

What the f***?!!

The Ultramarine Codex Discipline is crazy good. At least they are not allowed to assault.

It's kinda weird they're stealing a mainstay Tau trick, what with the falling back from combat and shooting.

It just reminds me how much I hate this codex release system. Yeah, I'm sure other armies (like Tau) will get cool stuff too but they will be less shiny than say, Ultramarines, UNTIL they get their codex. That's an odd system.

It's less bad if codexes come out rapidly and are carefully looked and points adjusted and all that (still not sure that will happen consistently) but it's still not good.

It's also a mainstay of Guard with Get Back In The Fight, Eldar, Dark Eldar, and basically any other army that uses a bunch of guys with Fly. I'd hardly call using a core mechanic from the main rulebook "stealing a mainstay Tau trick".

-shrugs-. I'd be more concerned that the Imperium have stolen the absolute MAIN thing that seperated the Tau from the other factions.

See, there were only two factions that innovated – the Tau and the Tyranids. We actually saw this on the tabletop as well – the Tau get new units, the 'nids get new units. (Ok, so did Marines, but they at least attempted to shoehorn them in as stuff that had always been around, we just hadn't noticed).

That's no longer the case. The ONLY advantage the Tau had, fluff wise, over the Imperium was that they were technological vital. Now? The Imperium has greater manpower, greater logistical support, greater strategic capablities, AND is innovating and advancing (Cawl's not only building better guns, better armour, better marines, better vehicles, boxier dreadnaughts, and better aircraft, he's also apparently built better spaceships).

Yes, for a crunch player who doesn't care about the fluff, who cares, but…..that was always supposed to be the Tau's big strength. That they'd take a beating, then develop some new weapon to fight back.

That's the Imperium's thing now. They take a beating (off screen), then get cool new toys to Excitingly Win Everything Ever With.

The Imperium versus Chaos conflict is in the spotlight now, which was announced as the plan months ago. My assumption, based on how AoS progressed and the last few wave of releases for WH40k 7th, is that GW has decided that a rolling metaplot is effective for driving sales. So after the Imperium vs. Chaos wave, we’ll probably get a series of Imperium vs. Xenos books… Damocles Gulf II, Armageddon IV, Tyrannic War IV, and so forth.

Rolling metaplots are fine, but they are likely going to use EVERY SINGLE ONE as an excuse to give new toys for the Imperium (Like Stormcast are getting in AoS.)

We are supposed (according to what they told us pre-8th's release) to be in an age when the Imperium is collapsing, when the points of light are shrinking fast, and where it's almost impossible for humanity to survive. That's what they've told us. What they've shown us is the Bright Shining Hero winning everything, everywhere, with a resurgent and revitalised Imperium. The biggest threat presented in the Dark Imperium book (for those that know the fluff) is not Mortarian's Death Guard – they don't actually do all that much other than die in droves to show how powerful Primaris are. It's Cawl and his AI. The biggest threat presented in the age of Chaos Ascendant is….an Adeptus Mechanicus Heretek.

There's nothing wrong with the Bright Saviour. But that's not the story they sold us, and the Imperium Focus got old a LONG time ago. (Yes, sales, I know. Maybe there are more Space Marine sales because they are over 50% of the range, get updates rapidly and consistently, are the focus of most of the major book series, and their major enemies are obviously designed to be them, but worse?).

I agree that the story of the Imperium (which IS the story of 40k) has taken a sharp left turn.

We got to one minute till midnight, then Roboute was ressurected as midnight struck and he changed the game. The big calamity happened and we survived. Maybe they didn't do it "the world blew up" style, but the story has been changed. It is less grim and dark, the inevitable slow death of the galaxy is no longer certain.

But don't worry, we still have https://regimental-standard.com/ for all of your satirical fascism humour!

Except that EVERYTHING they were telling us about the story – in fact, everything they are STILL telling us about the story is "Everything's so screwed".

This is contrasted with everything they are showing us, which is Blue Sue Saving Everything.

Gulliman shouldn't be able to change the game to the degree needed to do this. He's one guy. He can't be everywhere (except..he is, because GW's fluff writers). Chaos is supposed to be in the ascendant, and yet, Gulliman is somehow able to do more than his vastly more capable father AND his 8 other siblings could do? He's also massively anachronistic – he is trying to change the fundamental principles of the Imperium (which, it should be noted, WORKS. It has existed for five times longer than any real world power has existed for, over a vastly greater distance, and under vastly greater pressure)….while the Imperium is (supposedly) facing its greatest crisis ever.

But instead of an Imperium on the brink of defeat, they time skip us past Old Night 2.0, into GulliEmperor's new Great Crusade.

This is all basically what I expected when I heard the BIGGEST AND BESTEST of the ultrasmurfs was getting a 40k model.

GW's fluff is always like this. The bad guys make intimidating gestures, and then die like bitches in huge numbers to show off how awesome the good guys are. Pretty much the same thing happened in AoS; there's a whole age of chaos, where chaos took over the world. But ever since the Stormcast showed up, all Chaos does is lose, badly.

Yeah, I actually care about that a little bit. The Imperium was stagnation personified, perhaps only beat by the Necrons in that. Tau were the bright and shiny and "modern" faction. Now, as people have pointed out, some of the new Ultra Marines weapons look like they're tau based (based upon the models, check out that ion thing on the new dreadnought) and they're suddenly innovating forward.

Thematically, never mind rules, what does that leave Tau?

There’s really nothing “innovative” in what we’ve seen: bigger guns based on the same mass reactive bolts and magnetic bottles plasma that have been in use since before the Unification of Terra, life-support sarcophagi wired into walking slabs of armor that has been in use since the Great Crusade, and an incremental advance in powered armor design… that’s only the tenth such revision in over ten millennia.

And that’s just looking at this from the “in universe” perspective. Here in our universe, the Space Marine range hasn’t seen any real changes since the Rogue Trader era “Beakies” were replaced by Mk VII armor and the original RT Rhino and Land Raider were redesigned. But that all happened over twenty-five years ago. There’s been some updating and some revisions, but it’s hard to argue that the Space Marines haven’t been one of the most static aesthetic designs of any faction on any of GW’s games. They were well past due for a shakeup.

Plasma weaponry from every single faction in the game – Imperial, Xenos, or Chaos – should share a similarity of design. We’re dealing with a fictional technology that is based on a fictitious set of “laws of physics” that dictate how plasma weapons work… Hence, you should see the same general design from everybody. It adds verisimilitude to the setting because it means that whatever the fake “physics” behind plasma weapons are they are universal.

It’s similar to how the Star Trek franchise has “laws of physics” for Warp Drives and everyone – Federation, Klingon, Cardasian, Romulan, Etc. – all designs their ships in accordance with those “laws.” A general ovoid or sphereoid silhouette, paired nacelles, bussard collectors, deflector array, yadda, yadda, yadda. (See here for more: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/design.htm )

(PS: I want to respond directly to Prometheus but there is no reply button attached to his comment.)

Because all assault rifles look the same, even beyond "long, has a handle, gun end points towards the enemy" ?

Also – Ion cannon and Plasma cannon are not the same thing at all.

Just responding to your PS: It's taken me a while to track down what's going on with the comment system – it turns out IntenseDebate just switches itself off on mobile devices, and the blog reverts to WordPress' native commenting system. I've made some changes to the settings, so hopefully it will be a bit more tolerant of nested comments now (though it will still only handle 10 layers).

Let me know if your ability to comment on threads via mobile improves. 🙂

Also, regarding Star Trek :- The Defiant, the Borg, Species 8472, The Thorians, the Future Enterprise (although admitedly that may not be real), the Saurians all have designs that 'break' that rule. Romulan ships use an entirely different method of generating Warp Power.

Different species in different parts of the galaxy may have to contend with the same laws of physics, but they way they get physics to do what they want differs based on mindset.

The Defiant doesn’t break the rules: the nacelles are paired, they have more than 50% line of sight to each other (look at her from the ventral side), both nacelles are completely open to view from the front, and the bridge is right smack in the middle of the primary hull…

Romulan vessels follow may use a different means of generating power and a different bridge position, but they still follow all the nacelle rules. Species 8472 and the Tholians don’t actually originate in “our” universe and thus have a truly alien understanding of physical laws… and the Borg don’t use conventional warp drives (the one Borg ship that used conventional drive systems – Lore’s rogue Borg – had a ship that followed the rules.)

Well, yeah, all assault rifles more or less do look similar, they all work on the same fundamental mechanics. Weapons that use a gas piston will loom different in details from ones that don’t, and even amongst those there are differences between a long stroke piston and a gas-trap or whatever. But, at least for purposes of 32 mm scale models, an assault rifle is pretty much an assault rifle. An M14 will look different from a FAL or a Gewehr 41 or an AK-74… But if you were trying to design a completely fictional one for an “alien” race in a war game… Yeah, it had better follow the same basic principles of design.

I guess we have a very different definition of similar, since other than "Is a long gun", they kind of look quite different.

I'm also slightly confused why you think it ADDS verisimilutide for an alien race to design things following the same mindset – why exactly would an Eldar think about plasma containment in the same way as a human or a Tau? Physics puts some limitations on it, but there are various ways to contain the plasma – humans likely do it via magnetics, but Eldar almost certianly don't – the Dark Eldar used to have plasma weapons that worked by directly channelling tortured stars for power, for example. A plasma weapon that works by electromagnetic containment is going to look different to one that works by holding the plasma in a cage of Space Magic.

As for principles of design as regarding alien races in a war game :- I'm guessing you probably don't read White Dwarf? GW's actually been doing a few articles literally talking about that – and they absolutely are NOT going with "Everything should look the same". They are talking about design languages, and how an Eldar Weapon should look recognisably Eldar.

That plasma cannon having the same shape as an Ion Cannon doesn't really fit into that.

I’m guessing your not a gun guy? I’m only a hobbyist myself, my professional gunsmith friends could explain it in more detail, but the fact is that once you get down into the “worky bitz” of almost any modern automatic rifle, there’s really only two means of making them function. Any two rifles that use the same mechanical principles are going to end up looking similar. Form follows function.

Whenever you design a tool, it’s about making thing that will allow you to accomplish some goal. You have a “question” that needs an “answer.”

Why does a Portuguese Caravel look so outwardly similar to a Chinese Junk? Apart from the rigging, both ship designs were built to “answer the same question” Namely: How do I cross that ocean? Answer: in a small, highly maneuverable, open ocean sailing vessels that could operate in all manner of sea conditions. The physics of wind, water, and wood was the same in 6th Century China as it was in 15th Century Europe.

I'm not a gun guy, I'm british. :P. But from a quick look at assault rifles on google, they look significantly different. Yes, the worky bits may well be the same, but the actual weapon itself looks different.

Sure, the physics of the shipping was the same…but then not all shipping humanity has come up matches them Modern ships, other than basics of shape, don't follow the same principles. Same question, different answer.

Plus as I say, Eldar, Tau, and Imperials aren't actually using the same answers to the same question – The Eldar and the Imperials use different answers.

Plus, as has been said, it doesn't really matter if the weapons should look the same – an ion cannon is not a plasma cannon.

I guess it just doesn’t bug me that much. Although I do hope it has other weapon options beside the BFG Plasma Cannon and the BFG Gatling Gun. Between Incessors, Interceptors, and Hellblasters an army consisting of all or a majority of the Primaris Marines doesn’t really need more long range dakka, they need a counter-assault element… I want a Redemptor Dreadnought with a equally BFG-scale flame thrower or a second close combat arm.

(I also want someone to leak the point cost!)

Well, it's power level 11, so…around 200?

First Marines already have their assault element – they have the Totally Not Stealing From Night Lords Reivers.

-shrugs-. It doesn't help that I REALLY don't like the Primaris marines in basic concept, and an Imperium that's suddenly throwing out new toys like it makes sense for them is a serious divergence, fluff wise.

Cawl having 10,000 years doesn't fix this. (The Ad Mech would've killed him thousands of years ago, given the scale he'd need to be working on).

I would say its more of an issue for assault-based units/armies than Tau specifically, when every other asshole on the tabletop with a jump pack, jetbike, UM emblem, hit and run, titanic stride, or whatever else can just walk away from combat without penalty. Massed Hit and Run armies were annoying as hell in prior editions, and they decided to rectify that by making characters not join units to spread USR's around, and instead just slap said USR on 40% of unit entries. Feels great when you run across the table, getting shot the whole way, charge and get shot some more in overwatch, get to swing for one round, then the enemy swings back and walks away and shoots you again on their turn.

They cannot “walk away” if they don’t have space to freely move through, which works in favor of fast moving mêlée armies (e.g. Slaaneshi Dæmons) and/or horde armies (e.g. Orks). Several mêlêe focused units have special rules that make them hit especially hard (e.g. Berserkers) or give them a chance to “lock down” opponents (e.g. Wyches).

I’m going to assume that we might see Chapter Tactics style rules for other mêlée-focused armies like the Black Templars and White Scars.

And how many times have you pulled off that full envelopment maneuver in one round of assault vs a non-vehicle unit? Takes a lot of movement and a ton of models, so I'm rather dubious of that being something that can actually be done in practice rather than theory.

Well, since the only army I’ve used in my two games of 8th Edition has been my Deathwing… Twice. (One unit deep strikes behind the target, the other in front of it… Dakka dakka, charge.) It’s not going to be an _easy_ thing to do, but it’s not impossible, especially if you have units like White Scars / Ravenwing Bikes, Eldar Howling Banshees in Waveserpents, Seekers of Slaanesh, and so forth. Maneuver has always been the X Factor that separates the good players from the best players, I don’t claim to be anything but average myself, but this website is filled with articles that explain the importance of maneuver.

at least the ultramarine player is eating a -1 the other jerks aren't even doing that.

Clearly not "without penalty" in this case, given that the penalty is listed in the rule.

At a wider level, it looks pretty clear that the fallback rules are the missing piece that's made GW comfortable with fast combat. In previous editions (going back to at least third?) there have been lots of rules and changes to stop turn-one charges, charges out of DS etc. Now in 8th, most assault armies have the ability to get in your face really fast, and the only other obvious major change in this area is that you can fall back from combat. So, seems reasonable to extrapolate that GW's problem in the past has not been "hating assault" or any of that other childish shit, but rather that they strongly disliked the lack of available counterplay options on the part of the chargee, which is not unreasonable.

Anyway, ramble aside, the point I'm getting to is that the complement to fallback rules is that assault armies now generally have a way easier time getting into combat in the first place; there may still be fine-balance issues to iron out, but at the coarse scale those two changes should balance one another nicely.

I'm not calling it that because I happen to disagree with it, i'm calling it that because it seems an apt description to me (and which seems to be supported by the changes in 8hm. YMMV, of course, and I have no interest in getting into a pointless argument about it 🙂

It’s not the position itself that is childish, but the manner in which the argument is typically presented.

There’s a big difference between making a statement of opinion (even a controversial or unpopular one) and making a childish tantrum instead of a cogent argument. “I don’t think we should have roast beef tonight, because we had steak yesterday and hamburgers the day before that.” is a very different thing than “F–kin’ roast beef! F–k that s–t! I want chicken!”

General comment to remind everyone to be civil guys – I know we all have different opinions but let's be mindful of how we phrase this please.

Keep the pink overlord happy.