Codex Preview – Grey Knights (UPDATED)

In addition to the Warhammer Community post previewing the Codex for Grey Knights, there has been a video floating about flipping through the new codex. Facebook has summarised as follows:

Warlord Traits:

Unyielding Anvil: GK within 6″ auto pass Morale checks (Stern gets this one)

First to the Fray:: Re-roll failed Charges for Warlord and GK units within 6″

Daemon-Slayer: Deamons subtract 1 from their Invulnerable saves against wounding hits from your Warlord in the Fight phase (Draigo has this one)

Lore Master: Knows an extra Sanctic power. (Voldus has this one)

Hammer of Righteousness: Add 1 to wound rolls in the Fight phase if your Warlord charged this turn (Crowe’s)

Nemesis Lord: Add 1 to damage of the Warlord’s melee weapons. If your Warlord takes a Relic of Titan that is a melee weapon then choose a different Warlord Trait.

The Stratagems”

1cp Mental Focus: a GK psyker can attempt to cast an extra power this phase.

1cp/3cp Armoury of Titan: get a second Relic for 1cp, a third Relic for 3cp

2cp Finest Hour: Double the range of a Character’s auras for a turn

1cp Tactica Flexibility: Can split a 10 man squad into two 5 man squads after the game begins

1cp Wisdom of the Ancients: can re-roll to hit rolls of a 1 for units within 6″ of one of your Dreadnoughts for a single phase

1cp Truesilver Armour: get a 5+ roll to ignore mortal wounds on one of your vehicles for a phase

1cp Only in Death Does Duty End: a slain Character gets to Fight/Shoot back before removing the model

2cp Psychic Onslaught: +1 Strength and extra -1 AP for psilencers, gatling psilencers, psycannons, and heavy psycannons for a shooting phase for a unit

2cp Psybolt Ammunition: +1 Strength and extra -1 AP for boltguns, storm bolters, heavy bolters, and hurricane bolters for a phase for a unit

2cp Heed the Prognoticars: +1 to the Inv Save of a Character until the start of your next turn

1cp Psychic Channeling: roll 3 dice to manifest a power

2cp The Aegis: roll 3 dice to deny a power

1cp Teleportation Boost: Interceptors can do a second Shunt during the game

1cp Teleportarium: can hold a unit in Tactical Reserves and teleport it onto the table that normally doesn’t have that ability

Sanctic Powers:

Sanctuary: GK unit within 12″ gets 5+ Inv Save, or a +1 to an existing Inv Save

Astral Aim: 5WC, no LOS required to shoot, and ignores cover saves

Vortex of Doom: 8WC, drops a vortex over the nearest visible enemy model within 12″ and that unit and any other unit within 3″ of that model takes d3 mortal wounds. Increases to d6 mortal wounds if the power is manifested on a 12+ (so combines will with the Psychic Channeling stratagem)

No changes to Purge Soul, Gate of Infinity, or Hammerhand from the Index (that I could see).

Relics:

Fury of Deimos: Replaces a storm bolter. Looks like it becomes Rapid Fire 3, Strength 5, AP-1

Destroyer of Crys’yllix: Replaces a daemon hammer. Does a flat 4 Damage (vice 3)

Banner of Refining Flame: Give bearer the 6″ Smite that does d6 mortal wounds. Used by an Ancient

Domina Liber Daemonica: Daemon units within 6″ subtract 1 from Leadership

Cuirass of Sacrifice: ignore any wounds on a 5+ (the new-style FNP; this one looks like a no-brainer to me)

Soul Glaive: Replaces a Halberd. Strength +1, AP-3. Re-rolls failed hits and wounds.

Now for the two special army rules that we get if the entire army consists of only Grey Knights units. No Imperial soup, here:

Brotherhood of Psykers: +1 to all manifest and deny rolls for psychic powers.

Knights of Titan: Basically is the old ‘Objective Secured’ USR. In this case, our Strike Knights and Terminators control Objectives, even if outnumbered, unless the enemy unit has a similar rule (which we’ve already seen in the Space Marine codex that just came out).

In addition we have the information provided to us by the Community post with confirmed Grand Master Dreadknights and Chaplains – see below.

I continuously am amused that people label GK as an assault army (see Warhammer 40k FB page) but my goodness for the Psybolt Ammo CP – mass those Stormbolters / Hurricane Bolters. Anyone who has played Tau with ATS on their S5 guns knows how annoying those plinks become when they are reducing your armor. 2 CP is pricey though so you’re not going to get a whole game of this unless you take a small GK detachment built entirely around that.

 


 

Your first look at Codex: Grey Knights

Chaos is on the rise – but hope is far from lost. The new Grey Knights codex is incoming, and with it, new ways to build an army from Titan, new Stratagems, new psychic powers and more.

With the new codex, the Grey Knights are getting their hands on some new units. The most exciting of these is the option to take a Nemesis Dreadknight for the Grand Master. The higher Ballistic Skill of the Grand Master pays dividends with the powerful ranged weapons such as the heavy psycannon, while the Grand Master’s iron halo makes the Dreadknight even more durable. Most excitingly, you’ll be able to field an entire army of nothing but Dreadknights by using Spearhead Detachments – by our calculations, you can fit about 8 into 2000 points comfortably.

Grey Knights players are also gaining access to the Stormtalon Gunshipand Stormhawk Interceptor, adding some much needed and potent anti-air options in a largely melee-focused army.

The new psychic powers are going to be great for every Grey Knights player. Moreso than any other army in the game (bar perhaps the heretical followers of Tzeentch), the Grey Knights are an army that dominates the psychic phase. You’ll be able to make use of all six of your psychic powers every game, and each one is very useful. Our favourite is Astral Aim, which allows Grey Knights units to ignore cover and even fire through walls – combo this with a Purgation Squad wielding psilencers to devastate crucial enemy units that try to hide from the Emperor’s judgement.

Stratagems are another potent addition to the Grey Knights. With excellent Troops choices like Strike Squads  and Terminator Squads, it’s easy to grab loads of Command Points in a Grey Knights army, and there’s some great new abilities to spend them on:

Honour the Chapter is devastating – there’s very little in the game that can stand up to a unit of Paladins attacking twice.

Only in Death Does Duty end is a lethal combination with Grey Knights characters and a great way to guarantee a dangerous enemy character pays for killing your favourite Grand Master, (especially if he’s in a Dreadknight).

Wisdom of the Ancients is a useful aura ability and an efficient way to boost the accuracy of the high volume, high powered fire from Grey Knights weapons like psycannons.

Finally, there are Relics for you to build Grey Knights heroes of your own. As well as returning classics like the Soul Glaive and the Cuirass of Sacrifice, there are some new and unusual artefacts like the Banner of Refining Flame, which allows a Grey Knights Paladin Ancient to incinerate enemies with a super-charged Smite:

If you’re a Grey Knights player excited for new ways to play your army, or you’re looking to start your own army of these incorruptible psychic heroes, the new codex is for you. If you’re still hungry for more, tune in to Warhammer TV on Twitch this evening at 6:00 pm (UK time) to watch the codex in action in a battle against the Black Legion.

Codex: Grey Knights will be available to pre-order tomorrow.

 

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81 Responses to “Codex Preview – Grey Knights (UPDATED)”

  1. Stuart Lord says:

    Can’t wait to build an entire Dreadknight force.

    Add in an inquisitor and a swarth of acolytes to hold objective and I think we have an army nobody wants to model or play against.

    • AngryPanda says:

      That they advertise this all Dreadknight army is a perfect example of why I don't think there is anything new about "New GW".

      • Prometheus says:

        Yeah, and the irony of doing it after effectively removing all converted models…..so you add more?

        I'll just take my regular NDK and count him as a Grand master, thanks.

        I'm sure there are people who are considering doing the all NDK army , but that's not really what interests me. What interests me is that this is an easy and cheap way (in that I often take 1 NDK anyway, so 60 pts over that) to get a second HQ, making at least a battalion detachment much easier to achieve.

        • Desc440 says:

          "Yeah, and the irony of doing it after effectively removing all converted models…..so you add more?"

          I think their new doctrine is that they will allow options for conversions as long as these don't require any cutting and glueing. That is why Space Marines have the option for Assault Cannon Razorbacks; even though the Razorback kit doesn't come with assault cannons, you can just plop in the twin assault cannon from the Land Raider kit without further modification to make one.

          • Prometheus says:

            In many cases "x on a bike" would literally just mean taking the top half of x model off the sprue and gluing him to a normal biker marines legs. We're talking as much "conversion" as swapping heads.

            I think you're trying to credit them unnecessary amounts of rhyme or reason.

            • Alastores says:

              I suspect the removal of the Bike characters is because Primaris don't have bikers, but that's just me being cynical and hating the Primaris for destroying everything fun. : P

            • Desc440 says:

              Hmm I'd forgotten about the Bikers…

              Yeah it does seem it's full-on random.

              • Kirby says:

                It's super frustrating – a tournament I am going to has said no to any of this for the updated books even though GW has specifically allowed it. So no characters on bikes, no rifledreads, etc.

  2. Prometheus says:

    "it’s easy to grab loads of Command Points in a Grey Knights army, "

    Bullshit. We have the most expensive units (baring custodes) so it's just about harder to get CP for us than anymore else. I usually just make do with a Vanguard detachment, 4 CP including the base.

    • Ish says:

      “Loads” is a pretty subjective measurement. All of these previews are going to have a substantial amount of puffery in them, they’re designed for hype not statistical analysis (that’s what 3++ITNB is for!).

      • Prometheus says:

        It's a relative measurement. If it's less than everyone else, it's not "loads".

        Puffery can still be dumb puffery.

        • Ish says:

          In a typical 2,000 Point game, I’m hard pressed to see how the Grey Knights cannot field any Detachment, save the Brigade. Yes, the Grey Knights are one of the more “expensive” armies on a points per dudesman level, but that’s hardly a new development… You should still be able to squeeze 6 to 8 CP out of them. Maybe more if you really optimized for it.

          • No One says:

            "You should still be able to squeeze 6 to 8 CP out of them. Maybe more if you really optimized for it. "
            So, you should be able to maybe get 6-7 CP if you specifically worked towards it. Unlike other armies, who basically end up with pretty much that many just as a natural consequence of list building, and can go well beyond with effort and optimisation.

            In short, no, I (as someone who doesn't actually play the army) cannot see any reason to call grabbing CP 'easy' in a GK army – expensive stuff does not easy slot filling make. Do I think a brigade should be pretty doable? Yes, unless their HQ/troops are terrible. Do I see anything more than a brigade and maybe a vanguard being realistic? No. And 7 CP is not 'loads' at 2k, it's pretty middling really.

            • Ish says:

              Doing some very rough “back of a napkin” math, you can put together a Battalion for ~800-900 points: Brother-Captain, Techmarine, three five-man Strike Squads, and three Razorbacks. That’s 6CP, minimum, with room for plenty more toys.

              • Prometheus says:

                Can you take a shitty list to maximize CP? Yes of course. But even your shitty list to maximize CP gets you much less CP than everyone else's shitty list to maximize CP.

                That's really inarguable, so I'm not sure why you're trying.

                • abusepuppy says:

                  Since the list he just posted actually becomes a very solid starting point if you swap the Techmarine for a Grandmaster, I have no idea what you're talking about calling it "shitty." Strike Squads and Razorbacks are good now, dude.

                  • Prometheus says:

                    I play GK, I don't think it's a very good list, nor base. But the exact list isn't really the point now, is it? The point is that GK units are more expensive (the HQ in particular, I almost never want to take 2) and it's harder to fill out detachments to get CP. You can pick choices specifically to fill detachments and get CP. but that's not going to usually be a very good list, and regardless is going to net you less CP than armies with cheaper units. Again, that isn't arguable. And the exact list and why it's "shitty" isn't the point at all, nor was I specifically trying to argue with Ish's example. (though no, it isn't good)

                    All of which means you're arguing just to argue, and kinda being an asshole, Puppy. And you're probably doing it because it's me, and if I argued the sky was blue you'd say it was red.

                    But don't. Because that's fucking stupid. And the entire thesis, that Grey knights can't get as much CP as other armies is just true, and you know it, and arguing about how good strikes are or not (even though I wasn't arguing with Ish's list, specifically) is not even vaguely the point.

                    "stop being an ass, Puppy"

                    • Ish says:

                      Grey Knights are an elite army of very high cost / very powerful individuals. Thus has it always been, and thus shall it ever be. Of course armies that rely on massed swarms of chaff are going to outnumber the Grey Knights! But, dude, you are taking a line of puffery from a marketing article way too seriously.

                      If some greasy spoon diner in Flyover, Oklahoma had a menu that said “We serve the world’s best sausage!” you’d probably whip out a Michelin Guide and start arguing about how a specific charcuterie in Saône-et-Loire is scored highest of all.

                      Grey Knights can easily put a good Battalion on the table, backed by one of the specialist detachments (e.g., Spearhead) for 7 CP; Grey Knights could also do pretty well fielding two Battalions for 9 CP… Given that you can only use one Stratagem per Phase, given that most Turns won’t see you needing more than one Stratagem (if any), and that most games only last 5-6 Rounds? Well? How many damn Command Points do you think you’ll need!?

                    • Kirby says:

                      I can foresee using quite a lot of CP really quickly to be fair. A single turn could involve psybolt ammo, Teleportation Boost and Finest Hour to get a Interceptor Squad halfway across the table, double tapping the shit out of something with S5 AP -1 stormbolters and Draigo demanding everything spread out and re-roll.

                      There goes 5 CP in one turn without re-rolls or combat ones thrown in.

                    • Prometheus says:

                      I didn't take it that seriously, but you argued with me and then I had to argue back. 🙂

                    • Prometheus says:

                      It's not one stratagem per phase, it's the same stratagem once per phase.

                    • No One says:

                      "Given that you can only use one Stratagem per Phase, given that most Turns won't see you needing more than one Stratagem (if any), and that most games only last 5-6 Rounds? Well? How many damn Command Points do you think you'll need!? "
                      I consistently go through all my CP in ~3 rounds. I have no Codex.
                      I can see an army with Codex stratagems quite happily burning through 10 CP in 2 rounds.

                      If you're 'only' using 1 Stratagem per turn (if any), you're probably doing something wrong with how you spend CP. Sure they're a limited resource, but they have the most impact early game. Saving 1 or 2 for late game clutch stuff, sure. But otherwise?

                      "If some greasy spoon diner in Flyover, Oklahoma had a menu that said "We serve the world's best sausage!" you'd probably whip out a Michelin Guide and start arguing about how a specific charcuterie in Saône-et-Loire is scored highest of all. "
                      Eh. I'd call it more saying 'it's the best in the city' when it's objectively not, and then you…came and said what'd you expect, it's marketing? And then things…devolved. Sure it's marketing – doesn't mean it's not wrong. *Shrug*

                    • Kirby says:

                      I find I burn through quite quickly at a particular point. Even just the re-rolls can be used in two turns on average.

                      As more important stratagems come to the fore though, yes I imagine 2-3 turns and they will be gone save for a handy re-roll at the end of the game.

                    • abusepuppy says:

                      Since I play the best GK player in the ITC on a weekly or even daily basis, I'm gonna go ahead and tell you to fuck right off. You have no idea what you're talking about.

                    • Prometheus says:

                      That's all that you came here for. You're a belligerent asshole who just wants someone to call a belligerent asshole.

                      For the last fucking time, the specific list is not the point, nor what I was calling "shitty"

                    • Kirby says:

                      What lists are he using btw?

                    • Kirby says:

                      What's wrong with Strike Squads and Razorbacks? The biggest issue GK have IMO is getting more HQs, particularly if they are trying to keep within detachment.

                      I am waiting to read the rules for GK's army wide rules but do they get them for the detachment or do all attachments need to be GK? Because this then still allows you to grabbag other detachments that don't impede that, which are worthwhile and cover some GK weaknesses and up the CP.

                    • Prometheus says:

                      It's not about the specific list, just that GK will get less CP usually.

                      And it's the same as SM, it's per detachment. So yeah, you can have completely separate detachments of IG or whatever.

                      I personally am not interested in IG, but I have considered using some scout snipers (Raven guard, of course) with a cheap lieutenant to reroll woinds to get the mortal wounds. But you need 3 troops and 2HQs to get 3 CP and it winds up being closer to 500 pts…..I haven't liked what I've built so far.

                    • Kirby says:

                      Fair enough and then yes I agree, GK will have a hard time getting more CP because of their expense and Techies being 130+ (hopefully they go down in the codex).

                      IG are probably the cheapest option for +3CP but 2×30 Conscripts is not the best setup IMO. 20×3, 2x Company Commanders, Commissar though is 360 points… I would be adding in things though that GK have trouble with at range, ala multi damage weapons not on Razorbacks. So Manticores or drop Scions or something. But now were are 700-800 points.

                    • Coyote81 says:

                      You can get a decent brigade using IG and some space wolf cyberwolves for about 500pts.

                • Neil_Phillips says:

                  Razorspam.. Shitty list.. lol!

                  • Prometheus says:

                    For GK, yeah, kinda. Or more precisely, if you wanted to do razorspam, why wouldn't you do it with one of the regular marine lists, where are your other units are cheaper?

                    But again, the particular list in question is not at all the point. I wasn't calling that list a "shitty list" I was saying you can make shitty(er) lists to get CP but GK are still going to be worst at it. And that's just true. (well, besides custodes, I guess)

                    • Ish says:

                      Because you have Grey Knights and not Space Marines.

                    • Prometheus says:

                      Very few competitive people actually play like that, they'll just have it count as whatever.

                      ANyway, I know you don't actually disagree that GK have a harder time getting CP. You're just being pedantic.

                    • Neil_Phillips says:

                      GK Troops would be the Elites of other armies. So you get to take a Battalion without being forced to take crappy Tactical Marines or whatever.

                    • Prometheus says:

                      Well that sounds like someone who's never had to put together a GK list, or at least isn't very good at it.

                    • abusepuppy says:

                      Says the dude who hasn't played the game in two editions and likes to make wild, wholly-unsubstantiated claims about the game he just recently began playing.

                    • Prometheus says:

                      One edition. And just fuck off, Puppy. You're only commenting to cause trouble.

                    • Kirby says:

                      The foot units are better, Paladins, psychic powers, different stratagems, etc.

                      Strike Squads with ObjSec could easily be a thing – we will need to see how prevalent this option becomes though or if it's just a redressing of every Troop gets it.

                    • Prometheus says:

                      Basically what I'm saying. I haven't found anything that works better than paladins, Draigo, and an SR filled with various things (which is sometimes strikes). Other units such as Ven Dreads and NDKs to taste.

      • Kirby says:

        We are 3++ not 3++ITNB.

  3. hellgore says:

    Anything on Purifiers and if they keep that low Attack Stat?

    • Kirby says:

      Low A is kept it seems 🙁 but not 100% sure.

      • Hellgore says:

        Got the Codex today… yeah, Purifiers keep on sucking as the worst Veterans ever to be seen… has anybody contact with these ominous "playtesters" that GeeDub keeps babbling about? I'd reeeeaaallllyy like to know why the hell they made Purifiers FUBAR so hard. If they'd cost around 20ish points for having a better Ld-value it'd be okay, but this? This is just total bs.

        Oh, and if anybody wants to know something from the GK-dex – just ask!

  4. abusepuppy says:

    Oh, and since it's missing from the initial post, we know several of the other GK Stratagems:

    1/3CP: +1/+2 relics for the army.
    2(?) CP: Manifest an additional power (including manifesting a power you've already used.)
    1CP: Roll three dice and take the highest when making a psychic test.
    1CP: When a character is slain, they can immediately make their complement of melee attacks.
    1CP: Pick a Dreadknight, all units within 6" of it reroll 1s to hit.
    3CP: Pick a unit, it can fight a second time this turn.

    The three additional spells being added to the Sanctic discipline are Sanctuary (+1 invuln for a single unit, to a max of 3++?), Vortex of Doom, and… osmething else I have forgotten. 😛

  5. Dalinair says:

    Looks like barely anything changed for GK then

    • Ish says:

      Nothing much needed to change, really. They were always a solid army and the bulk of their model range is still fairly new.

      I have been saying for a while now (and every new announcement seems to confirm it) that I suspect GW’s release plan for Eighth Edition codices is going to follow the same pattern as AoS: Codices that get full waves of new model kits will be in between releases of codices that don’t get new (or only get very few) new kits.

      “Vanilla” Marines, full release; “Vanilla” Chaos Marines, no new kits; Grey Knights, no new kits; Deathguard, full release; Thousand Sons, no new kits; and so on and so forth.

  6. Kirby says:

    Warlord Traits:

    Unyielding Anvil: GK within 6" auto pass Morale checks (Stern gets this one)

    First to the Fray:: Re-roll failed Charges for Warlord and GK units within 6"

    Daemon-Slayer: Deamons subtract 1 from their Invulnerable saves against wounding hits from your Warlord in the Fight phase (Draigo has this one)

    Lore Master: Knows an extra Sanctic power. (Voldus has this one)

    Hammer of Righteousness: Add 1 to wound rolls in the Fight phase if your Warlord charged this turn (Crowe's)

    Nemesis Lord: Add 1 to damage of the Warlord's melee weapons. If your Warlord takes a Relic of Titan that is a melee weapon then choose a different Warlord Trait.

  7. Kirby says:

    The Stratagems"

    1cp Mental Focus: a GK psyker can attempt to cast an extra power this phase.

    1cp/3cp Armoury of Titan: get a second Relic for 1cp, a third Relic for 3cp

    2cp Finest Hour: Double the range of a Character's auras for a turn

    1cp Tactica Flexibility: Can split a 10 man squad into two 5 man squads after the game begins

    1cp Wisdom of the Ancients: can re-roll to hit rolls of a 1 for units within 6" of one of your Dreadnoughts for a single phase

    1cp Truesilver Armour: get a 5+ roll to ignore mortal wounds on one of your vehicles for a phase

    1cp Only in Death Does Duty End: a slain Character gets to Fight/Shoot back before removing the model

    2cp Psychic Onslaught: +1 Strength and extra -1 AP for psilencers, gatling psilencers, psycannons, and heavy psycannons for a shooting phase for a unit

    2cp Psybolt Ammunition: +1 Strength and extra -1 AP for boltguns, storm bolters, heavy bolters, and hurricane bolters for a phase for a unit

    2cp Heed the Prognoticars: +1 to the Inv Save of a Character until the start of your next turn

    1cp Psychic Channeling: roll 3 dice to manifest a power

    2cp The Aegis: roll 3 dice to deny a power

    1cp Teleportation Boost: Interceptors can do a second Shunt during the game

    1cp Teleportarium: can hold a unit in Tactical Reserves and teleport it onto the table that normally doesn't have that ability

  8. Kirby says:

    Sanctic Powers:

    Sanctuary: GK unit within 12" gets 5+ Inv Save, or a +1 to an existing Inv Save

    Astral Aim: 5WC, no LOS required to shoot, and ignores cover saves

    Vortex of Doom: 8WC, drops a vortex over the nearest visible enemy model within 12" and that unit and any other unit within 3" of that model takes d3 mortal wounds. Increases to d6 mortal wounds if the power is manifested on a 12+ (so combines will with the Psychic Channeling stratagem)

    No changes to Purge Soul, Gate of Infinity, or Hammerhand from the Index (that I could see).

  9. Kirby says:

    Relics:

    Fury of Deimos: Replaces a storm bolter. Looks like it becomes Rapid Fire 3, Strength 5, AP-1

    Destroyer of Crys'yllix: Replaces a daemon hammer. Does a flat 4 Damage (vice 3)

    Banner of Refining Flame: Give bearer the 6" Smite that does d6 mortal wounds. Used by an Ancient

    Domina Liber Daemonica: Daemon units within 6" subtract 1 from Leadership

    Cuirass of Sacrifice: ignore any wounds on a 5+ (the new-style FNP; this one looks like a no-brainer to me)

    Soul Glaive: Replaces a Halberd. Strength +1, AP-3. Re-rolls failed hits and wounds.

  10. Kirby says:

    Now for the two special army rules that we get if the entire army consists of only Grey Knights units. No Imperial soup, here:

    Brotherhood of Psykers: +1 to all manifest and deny rolls for psychic powers.

    Knights of Titan: Basically is the old 'Objective Secured' USR. In this case, our Strike Knights and Terminators control Objectives, even if outnumbered, unless the enemy unit has a similar rule (which we've already seen in the Space Marine codex that just came out).

    • Ish says:

      Too bad that I have it on expert authority that Strike Teams in Razorbacks is a shitty list.

      • Prometheus says:

        for only like the 10th fucking time, I wasn't actually calling that list shitty (though it's certainly not what I would take) I was saying you can take shitty builds, generally, to fill out detachments for CP.

        • Suijin says:

          Actually you did literally call it shitty, " But even your shitty list to maximize CP gets you much less CP than everyone else's shitty list to maximize CP."

          • Prometheus says:

            Actually, it's referring again, to a generic shitty, optimized for CP list. As in "whatever sacrifices in functionality you took to maximize CP" list.

            But you know what I love about the internet? Say "it's not about the specific list", all people will talk about is specific fucking list.

            • Suijin says:

              "your shitty list" sounds pretty specific. It may not be what you really meant as you say, but it can easily be taken as you literally saying it.

              Eh, doesn't matter that much really. Mostly just seems to be some bad blood and argumentative attitudes of people with history. Both of you have your specific points which are correct, but it doesn't seem like either can admit it.

              • Ish says:

                I’m perfectly happy to admit that Grey Knights will not be able to bring as many Command Points to the table as other armies. However, I still think it’s quite possible to bring “loads” of CP, if you’re willing to accept that it’s both subjective (“loads” isn’t an integer) and relative (“loads” of CP for Grey Knights or Deathwing is “middling” for Tyranids or Imperial Guard).

    • Desc440 says:

      A bit surprised that GK get ObSec… doesn't really suit the nature of their role in the 40k universe. I hope not every fucking army is going to get this for their Troops, otherwise it'll be a meaningless ability. We already know CSM are getting it (at least for their Chaos Marine Squads)…

      • Kirby says:

        Ya I wonder if everyone will get it. Fair enough as it is parity but would have liked to have seen certain armies getting it as a particular advantage, particularly given we know there is not Troop parity.

      • Prometheus says:

        I pretty much figure everyone will get it. Which makes you wonder why they just didn't write it in the main rules. To discourage overly broad armies, maybe?

    • AngryPanda says:

      So how is giving Objective Secured a dozen different names going to clear up the game again? This edition will be such an unwieldy clusterfuck so fast because no one can change anything without changing every single entry in every book at the same time.

  11. Venkarel says:

    I just ran the numbers for a strike squad and a equivalent SM squad similarly equipped. 5 man Tac Squad 65 pnts + 5 Force Swords 60pnts + 5 stormbolters 10 pnts = 135. 5 man Strike Squad 95 + Stormbolter 10 + swords 0 = 105. Pretty hefty discount there. The does not account for psych out grenades or that they are psychers or that they can “deep strike”.

  12. Venkarel says:

    True, but they have the same stat line and basic gear that can I think we can compared them across codex, given that assumption I think it is reasonable to “mis-equip” a tac squad in order to compare like to like.

    • Ish says:

      It’s a mistake to compare point values of units across codices. Units are priced relative to the other units in their own army, not to others, you need to take a holistic view of the entire army… Something that would be extremely valuable to one army might not be worth nearly as much for another.

      • Venkarel says:

        We are currently useing dataslates for Grey Knights directly from the SM codex, well until this weekend. Both armies were publish in the same index and the Grey Knights use direct dataslates from the SM part of the index, and since GW has stated we should use the most current version of the dataslates we have to then use the updated versions of the dataslates from the SM codex. This should then lead to the idea that the designers actual are useing the SM as the starting point for the non-codex astrates chapters.

        • Ish says:

          Yes, they are in the same book, but they are not the same Army List.

        • Kirby says:

          You do not have the option for a Tactical squad with Stormbolters and Force Weapons though. Grey Knights have always been a bargain for what they are – MEQs with Stormbolters and Force Weapons but while that makes them very efficient generalists, they are inefficient at being pure assault options or pure shooting options.

  13. SixArmedEmperor says:

    I'm glad I'm getting back into Grey Knights. Holy hell they look fun again.

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