Codex: Space Marines Review Part 10 – Helbrecht, The Emperor’s Champion, Grimaldus & Cenobyte Servitors

Greetings, fellow beleaguered Imperial Guard Lieutenants desperately pleading for an airstrike on the Tyranid swarm about to overrun their position! Welcome to this next instalment of our Codex: Space Marines review. Today, we cover the Black Templar special Characters (and Grimaldus’ attendant Cenobyte Servitors). I humbly apologies for the decreased tempo at which I’m releasing these reviews but new responsibilities at work have cut into the time/energy I have to write. I hope you will bear with me as I bash on but at a slower pace. Many thanks in advance!

High Marshall Helbrecht

Helbrecht is a bit expensive, coming in at 170 points. He does bring some nice features for those points, to be fair. First off, he has the fantastic Chapter Master ability, allowing all BLACK TEMPLARS units within 6” of him to re-roll all failed to-hit rolls. While you can always get this with a Captain (via the Chapter Master Stratagem), Helbrecht allows you to avoid having to spend 3 Command Points to do so. He also improves by 1 the Strength of all BLACK TEMPLARS models (not units) within his 6 inch aura; that’s not bad but a bit unwieldy and just strictly inferior to Pedro Kantor’s +1 Attack aura. Beyond what he can do for the army as a force multiplier, Helbrecht brings a tasty profile, with a 2+ save, a 4+ invulnerable save, 6 Wounds, a pseudo-Relic Blade (one less to Strength bonus) that gives Helbrecht +D3 Attacks when charging and a combi-Melta to boot! Sadly, being stuck on foot (once you are out of your transport, whether willingly or not…) is not ideal for CC Characters, but given that Crusader Squads do not have built-in mobility either, it is perhaps not as annoying as it may have been usually. All in all, though, I think a bit too expensive for what he brings to the party. If only his Strength-boosting bubble affected UNITS and not MODELS, I’d likely be singing a different tune.

The Emperor’s Champion

The most iconic Black Templar unit ever, the Emperor’s Champion is a cheap melee Character. For 75 points, you get a decent combat statline (2+ WS and 4 Attacks), decent survivability (4 Wounds, 2+ Armour Save, 4+ Invulnerable Save), a nifty sword (basically a Relic Blade that allows you to re-roll failed wound rolls when targeting CHARACTERS or MONSTERS) and a few nice rules to take down enemy Characters (gain +1 Strength and Attack within 1 inch of an enemy Char, and re-roll all failed to-hit rolls when fighting Characters). All of that is very nice, but it still pales compared to the increased efficiency spending those points on a Captain or Lieutenant would bring to your army as a whole. Let’s also not overlook the fact that bringing all of that Character-killing choppiness to bear would be so much easier if Big E’s man could take a Jump Pack or a Bike… Being on foot/needing to itch a ride is always annoying when you’re trying to be effective at melee combat.

Chaplain Grimaldus

Well… thanks for screwing up the only good Black Templars Character, GW! Pre-FAQ, Grimaldus was a pretty potent force multiplier: every BLACK TEMPLARS unit within 6 inches of him generated an extra attack in close combat for every 6+ hit rolls they made. Post-FAQ, this has been limited to MODELS in range of his aura; this makes it massively less powerful, obviously. Armed with a Plasma Pistol (which though shalt not overcharge!) and the customary Chaplain’s Crozius Arcanum, Grimaldus is in all other respects a normal Chaplain on foot, which is not ideal but as with Helbrecht, not completely crippling since Crusader Squads will be on foot/transport-dependant too – it’s just unfortunate he can’t have a jump pack as that would have allowed him to be included in more list builds.

Cenobyte Servitors

The Black Templar’s second-best special unit (after Crusader Squads). These very cheap little guys (2 pts a pop) are supposed to accompany Grimaldus (and indeed, get improved Weapon Skill and Leadership in his presence) but in reality, best they be employed without him. While the 12 inch bubble of auto-pass Morale tests for BLACK TEMPLAR units that the Cenobytes generate is cool, the real boon these guys bring is that they are ridiculously cheap and come with a 4+ save. Ergo, dump them out of LOS (preferably in a ruin to gain a 3+ AS) on an objective to force your opponent to divert a likely far greater amount of combat power than should be warranted to get these guys off of said objective (or should he not go for that, you spent only 6 pts to hold a potentially game-winning location – score!). Its rare that I say something is a must-take, but for a BT player, I do believe Cenobytes would fall into that category.

So in a nutshell, not a great showing overall for the Templars. I really have to scratch my head at the fact Grimaldus was so heavily nerfed when Roboute Guilliman is still only 360 pts but the facts are the facts. Hopefully, when Chapter Approved 2017 comes out, our Boys in Black will get a much-needed price reduction. In the interim, Templar players can comfort themselves with the fact that they still get to enjoy what is likely the best Troop choice in the Codex.

See you next time, chums!

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45 Responses to “Codex: Space Marines Review Part 10 – Helbrecht, The Emperor’s Champion, Grimaldus & Cenobyte Servitors”

  1. meh says:

    the ideology of footslogging marines being bad compare to JP is annoying to say the least

  2. Ish says:

    Crusader Squads aren’t limited to walking, neither are any of the Black Templars characters… Transports are a thing.

    • MindwarpAU says:

      So many people seem to forget that. Even the humble rhino is a potent force multiplier, and can even be a threat with a pair of stormbolters. Razorbacks can do more than just carry a pair of assault cannons, and the Land Raider family is a whole lot more useful with split fire (although probably still a little overpriced). The LRC can lay a truly incredible amount of hurt on multiple infantry units, and T8 W16 2+ is about as tough as tanks come. Stormravens will get a squad and dreadnought to their destination faster than any jump pack or bike. And the various tanks can charge in to eat overwatch fire and do a bit of damage before your infantry charge.

      The bad old days when a transport was a death trap are long gone.

      • Desc440 says:

        I never said they have to slog it across the board. Still, having a JP or bike is still better. As awesome as the Razorback and Stormraven are, they can still get knocked out before you leave your deployment zone, making it much harder to reach combat.

        • Ish says:

          You kinda did say “they had to slog it across the board,” if not in those exact words you sure implied it heavily.

          >> Sadly, being stuck on foot is not ideal for CC Characters, but given that Crusader Squads have to walk too, it is perhaps not as annoying as it may have been usually. <> Being on foot is always annoying when you’re trying to be effective at melee combat. <> Grimaldus is in all other respects a normal Chaplain on foot, [but] not completely crippling since Crusader Squads will be on foot too. <<

          You are right when you say that a Razorback or Rhino can be knocked out in the first turn or two… But probably not five of them.

          • Desc440 says:

            "You kinda did say "they had to slog it across the board," if not in those exact words you sure implied it heavily."

            I guess I'll edit things a bit to make it clearer, then.

            "You are right when you say that a Razorback or Rhino can be knocked out in the first turn or two… But probably not five of them. "

            Even having one knocked out is decreasing the pressure on your opponent.

          • _Garnet_ says:

            Being on foot is still a disadvantage, though, because jump packs allow you to not only get across the board initially, but to re-position surviving assets for followup assaults. A jump pack-equipped model has much greater options for moving on after combat, and a greater ability to get close enough to ensure the charge doesn't fail.

            • Ish says:

              There’s never been many named special characters in WH40k that used jump packs or rode bikes… and they’ve never been part of the Black Templars. Seems silly to raise that as an issue when discussing them. I mean, if I’m reviewing a new toaster oven, I wouldn’t mention that it cannot brew coffee, would I?

              Black Templars have access to the same generic characters that can use jump packs or ride bikes as any other C:SM Chapter, plus the standard Bike Squads, Assault Squads, and whatnot.

              • Desc440 says:

                Just because they never had the option doesn't mean they couldn't have it. A Marine plastic jump pack fits just fine on almost all Marine models, so it is entirely relevant.

              • _Garnet_ says:

                I feel like it's entirely worth pointing out that beatstick characters who are foot infantry are going to regularly struggle to have a major impact on the game, simply because their mobility is equal to if not lower than the things they particularly want to catch and kill. Now, BT have some mitigation since their chapter tactic lets them reroll their charges, so it's not as essential for them to close to point blank range to ensure the charge goes off. But if you're a character with a 6" aura who really wants to hang out less than 1" from an enemy unit as long as possible, spending two or three turns walking along out of combat is going to have an impact on that characters' ability to contribute to the game.

                And if you were reviewing a new toaster oven that came from a catalogue that also offered toaster oven-coffee maker all-in-one machines for even vaguely equivalent points, it probably would be worth mentioning the former's inability to brew coffee, yeah.

      • Andy says:

        I am i think a bit more concerned with the melee options and A stat of space marines, i tend to find they are extremely lack lustre as such i don't really feel there is much point in transporting them anywhere i'd rather shoot.

        8th edition has a whole host of elite assault troops with 4A and i can't understand like desc says, why diminish the potential of running space marines as assault dudes. I would have thought there would be more buffs and better auras, make your close combat space marine chapter good in close combat, these options are a little weak.

        With the new primaris marines we see absolutely no close combat troops, they nearly all prefer to shoot than get into melee, reiver squads being the exception but also very lack lustre in melee.

        I don't really like transports if there's a deep strike option i prefer that, the chance to lose everything if a transport gets locked in melee tends to make me steer away from transports that don't have fly keyword.
        That said the storm raven is comfortably the best (none FW). They pay next to nothing for the transport capacity, their firepower is roughly equivalent to the same cost of predators and they have -1 to hit which is incredible. Add on the ability to carry dreadnoughts and i think it's the best option, i just wish i had something i felt it was worth transporting.

        In a straight up comparison i think the land raider loses out massively to the repulsor, the repulsor is better in nearly every way, apart from having the fly key word so its easier to kill, but at same time, it's easier to keep out of melee. The only land raider i think is worth it, its the inquisitor prometheus for it's ability to fire over watch at anything that deep strikes, it just seems the landraider was priced high to make repulsors look good and sell them. The Spartan Assault Tank is what landraiders should be, the Sokar is of course a total different level, combining firepower, transport capacity and resilience.

  3. Prometheus says:

    I wouldn't call Helbrecht expensive. He's a massive beat stick and most of what you're paying for is the re-roll. Re-roll bubbles are crazy good. Compare this to Draigo at 245. Sure, Draigo is better. But I would be way more happy to have Helbrecht in my GK army for 170 than Draigo at 245.

    • Desc440 says:

      "Massive beat stick" is being a bit generous. He's not bad but let's not go crazy – he's a Captain with a Relic Blade that gets D3 extra attacks on the charge.

      You're right that you mostly pay for his reroll bubble but an upgraded Captain does that for much cheaper.

      • Prometheus says:

        "Upgraded Captain" is not a useful comparison, as CPs do not have point costs.

        He's pretty high on the beat stick end. He's in line with all the other chapter masters that give re-rolls. A little more beat face, a little poorer on the aura (+1 str is not as good as +1 attack, for instance) but it's still very hard to say he's over costed.

        • Desc440 says:

          You can kinda point out how much those CPs are costing you in this case, though. And its more than I'm comfortable with, personnaly.

          I think we just have a different definition of what a beatstick is. Helbrecht will statistically kill less than 3 Marines on the charge. That's not very beatsticky in my book.

          • Prometheus says:

            I don't think you can, but 3 CP is a LOT. I think most SM lists will have in the 7-9 range? You might see brigades for SM, but not commonly.

            Multi-damage characters shouldn't be killing troops, not their mission.

            • Desc440 says:

              Yes, 3 CP is a lot, but so is the nearly 100 pts difference between the naked Chapter Master and Helbrecht.

              The comparison is even worse when looking at big stuff, though. Hebrecht will do 3.24 wounds to a T7 3+ target whereas a Chapter Master with Thunder Hammer will do 4.57. Seriously, he's not that impressive for how much he costs.

              • Prometheus says:

                You mean Captain and with that hammer it's only a 75 pt difference. And yeah, considering how much I have to jigger things to get a Battalion rather than say, a vanguard (granted as GK) those 3CP are worth a lot more than 100 pts.

                And while I appreciate the math hammer, vehicles aren't the main target either, it's busting other characters, providing THEIR armies rerolls.

                • Desc440 says:

                  75 pts is still a lot, and CPs for GK are probably worth a lot more than for Marines, in fairness, so you shouldn't really draw parallels there.

                  Helbrecht is going to be pretty damn bad at knocking out other characters in combat if your opponent is even half awake, given that he moves 6 inches a turn and can't jump over troops. A Chapter Master (that's an upgraded Captain with the Chapter Master Stratagem…) with a hammer and jump pack does the exact same amount of wounds to a rival Captain, will have a much easier time getting to him AND is still more than 50 pts cheaper.

                  • Prometheus says:

                    I get Draigo into combat no problem, so I think it'd be about the same for Helbrecht.

                    We're talking like 6-7 CP for GK vs 7-9 CP for SM. 3 CP is in my esitmation worth waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy more than 75 or 100 pts.

                    I agree that it's mostly about the re-roll. 3 CP is too much for the re-roll over 75 pts.

                    • Desc440 says:

                      Draigo can deep strike, Helbrecht can't.

                      For GK, you may be right that CPs are worth that much. For Marines, not so much.

                    • Prometheus says:

                      Draigo isn't running with 60 marines on foot. (and you can still put him in a transport, same as anyone else)

                      If you aren't running a bunch of marines on foot, sure upgrade a bike captain or something, but then……why are you running BT?

                    • Desc440 says:

                      Of course he's not running with 60 Marines on foot, because why would he? And why put him in a transport at all, unless you want to limit your drops to improve your chances of getting T1.

                      Even with Marines on foot, you'd probably get more out of the naked Captain, since he's not going to get into combat in a hurry anyways – why spend points on combat wargear?

                    • Prometheus says:

                      Dude, again, then why are you even playing BT? The only other thing you can do with them is some sort of terminator assault from DS, which sure, obviously then you're getting a termie captain, or more likely a chaplain.

                      If you're taking Helbrecht, your running marines on foot. Not sure how that's not clear. If you think that's a bad plan (not saying it's good) don't run BT!

                    • Desc440 says:

                      I was talking about Draigo not running with 60 Marines on foot because he has no reason to do so. And if I were to play BT, I wouldn't do an army that isn't either in transports or can Deep Strike/infiltrate.

                      Marines on foot are bad, so don't run Helbrecht I guess?

                    • Prometheus says:

                      I think can over saturate a certain target type same as you can anything else. You probably haven't tried 60+ marines in 8th edition.

                      But again, if that plan is bad, then there's very little reason to run BT, and I probably would have just started with that.

                    • Desc440 says:

                      I think 60 Marines potentially charging on T1 is scary (combo of Scouts and Vanguard Vets). 60 Marines starting in their deployment zone on foot and trying to reach CC is a turkey shoot.

                    • abusepuppy says:

                      >If you aren't running a bunch of marines on foot, sure upgrade a bike captain or something, but then……why are you running BT?

                      The correct answer, of course, is "don't run BT they aren't very good compared to the other chapters."

                    • Andy says:

                      The whole Black Templars package is just badly thought out, "reroll failed charges, deny psychic, +3" aura, and 6" heroic intervention". No method of advance and charge. It's just not thought out properly, lack luster assault troops with chars that buff but can't deep strike, and chars that can't share transports with their troops.

                      Blood Angels don't even have a chapter tactic, but still make better assault troops than BT do

                      Grey Knight strike squads exist, who are the only good adeptus astartes assault troops any more.

                      Assault Terminators are way over costed, paying 5 pts just to be allowed to equip lightning claws, then another 12pts for the lightning claws, or 21 for the Hammer and SS.

                      Normal Terminators are power fist and storm bolter for 40pts, 43 get's you an Aggressor instead, who is faster, has T5 (3+ not 2+/5++) and has 2 and a bit times the fire power but can't deep strike (unless it's raven guard, then it can deep strike and has a -1 to hit at 12" +). Or you can have 2 GK who have double the firepower, same wounds, only 3+ svs again, but also psychic.

                      At the end of the day, the issue, is, that space marines are a shooting army, they shoot stuff, if you want to create a melee chapter, be a bit more generous with the rules changes and weapon options. At the very least let the Reiver sergeant have a power weapon so there's some way to harm things with armour or t5.

                      Every chapter should be viable in some sort of detachment, but I really struggle to make a single BT detachment, I make them, think okay this can do something, then oh wait no, cos for the cost of my 3 HQ's and 3 units I have to fight 60 Genestealers, or 90 orks.

                    • Desc440 says:

                      I don't think it's really that bad. The Warlord Trait is crap, but the CT, Relic and Stratagem are all good.

                      What is it that makes BA better at assault than Marines? Death Company? Because IH Vanguard Vets are essentialy DC without the +1 attack on the charge but 2 pts cheaper. BT Vanguards lose the resilience but gain the reliable charges, which is kind of a big deal for an assault army.

                      If I were to run BT in a competitive manner, I think this is what I would go with:

                      Brigade Detachment
                      Chaplain w/ Jump Pack
                      Lieutenant w/ Jump Pack – Power Sword, Storm Bolter
                      Techmarine – Conversion Beamer

                      5 Scouts – BP/CCW, Sgt w/ 2 Chainswords (designated grenade-chucker)
                      5 Scouts – BP/CCW, Sgt w/ 2 Chainswords
                      5 Scouts – BP/CCW, Sgt w/ 2 Chainswords
                      5 Scouts – BP/CCW, Sgt w/ 2 Chainswords
                      5 Scouts – BP/CCW, Sgt w/ 2 Chainswords
                      5 Scouts – BP/CCW, Sgt w/ 2 Chainswords

                      5 Vanguard Vets w/ Jump Packs – Sgt w/ TH & SS, Vet w/ 2 Chainswords, Vet w/ SS & Chainsword, Vet w/ Power Axe and Chainsword, Vet w/ Power Axe & SS
                      5 Vanguard Vets w/ Jump Packs – Sgt w/ TH & SS, Vet w/ 2 Chainswords, Vet w/ SS & Chainsword, Vet w/ Power Axe and Chainsword, Vet w/ Power Axe & SS
                      5 Vanguard Vets w/ Jump Packs – Sgt w/ TH & SS, Vet w/ 2 Chainswords, Vet w/ SS & Chainsword, Vet w/ Power Axe and Chainsword, Vet w/ Power Axe & SS
                      5 Vanguard Vets w/ Jump Packs – Sgt w/ TH & SS, Vet w/ 2 Chainswords, Vet w/ SS & Chainsword, Vet w/ Power Axe and Chainsword, Vet w/ Power Axe & SS
                      5 Vanguard Vets w/ Jump Packs – Sgt w/ TH & SS, Vet w/ 2 Chainswords, Vet w/ SS & Chainsword, Vet w/ Power Axe and Chainsword, Vet w/ Power Axe & SS

                      Attack Bike – Multimelta
                      Attack Bike – Multimelta
                      Attack Bike – Multimelta
                      Attack Bike – Multimelta

                      Predator – Twin Las, 2 Las sponsons
                      Predator – Twin Las, 2 Las sponsons
                      Predator – Twin Las, 2 Las sponsons

                      All the Vanguards, the chappie and the Lt DS on T1. Between them and the Scouts, SOME are bound to make the charge.

                    • Prometheus says:

                      It's awfully spammy for my taste.

                      Also, really don't think attack bikes are very good this edition. -1 to hit.

                    • Desc440 says:

                      It's a competitive list, the vast majority of which feature spam to a large degree.

                      Attack Bikes with Heavy Bolters are solid when acting in an objective grabber role. I agree the -1 to hit is problematic for the Multimelta but you need some FA to get a Brigade, and the list was a bit light on AT, hence why they are included.

                    • Andy says:

                      But they make their charge, great, then what?

                      Vs a shooting army you are golden, but vs something like 'nids?

                      It's biomass in a tin, and the genestealers are the tin opener. You might last 3 turns if super lucky, and thts not even the worst case, if you field that vs Ynarri/Harlie, you have no plan B, and they are going to kill so many space marines so fast, that they won't even be able to soul burst off every kill.

                      Orks I think it is closer, but there's no way to kill enough fast enough to stop them just mobbing you, they need to kill 1 dude for every 4 of them that die.

                      Finally, and probably most damningly, smite batteries would have a field day, you'd be lucky not to lose 400pts a turn to the smites.

                      To understand the issues, i'll give an example of a problem you need to consider if you want to enter a tournament, it's the Alpha Legion 20 Beserker bum rush. 320pts gets them a unit of 20 'serkers, that is 98% going to get in on turn 1 if they win the roll to go first. (Noise marines are often used instead cos they are useful if you don't get T1). Any army that has a plan to deal with a 98% success charge from a unit able to fight three times with 60 melee attacks, is more than happy to deal with a smattering of jump packs that get in, this is the issue, you just can't build an army that does close to what other armies can do.

                    • Desc440 says:

                      Give me an example Nid list and I'll tell you how I'd go about beating it.

                      Ynnari might be a bad matchup, but every army has one.

                      Orks I'm pretty confident about beating if I can concentrate on cutting them down piece by piece. They are slower than me generally so that doesn't seem like an impossible task.

                      Smites are going to kill a whole lot of Scouts, and then die as my Vanguards get in CC.

                    • abusepuppy says:

                      Against most good armies, the things you are charging will jut be chaff units that exist to block you off from getting to the real firepower in the list. Sure, you get in and assault that unit of Conscripts/Cultists/Kroot/Horrors/etc, and chew it to pieces- now you have a bunch of basic Marines sitting in front of all the enemy's guns and psychic powers and no defenses of any kind ready.

                      Ynnari isn't your worst matchup by a long shot; most Ynnari lists actually have few or no blocking units and thus will actually find the army to be pretty annoying if they go second. Tyranids or any other army with a strong melee component will roll through you like you didn't exist.

                    • Desc440 says:

                      Yeah well you really shouldn't throw your everything on the charge against chaff screens, otherwise obviously you're going to get screwed. Need to lock them in and actually do the killing in their own turn.

                      Give me a Nid list and I'll tell you what my plan for dealing with them would be.

                    • No One says:

                      "Yeah well you really shouldn't throw your everything on the charge against chaff screens, otherwise obviously you're going to get screwed. Need to lock them in and actually do the killing in their own turn."
                      But how do you guarantee the charge to kill the screen? Reroll charge helps, but it's…not even 50% chance each I think? So, how many units are you sacrificing to kill the screen? Is it enough that you're both comfortably able to get the charge with something (because wasting 2 or 3 units to do nothing would be awkward), and have enough to engage well once the screen is dead?

                      I'm…also skeptical of your ability to lock stuff with such small model count, but you've at least got Fly (haven't had a chance to muck around much with Fly combats).

                    • Andy says:

                      The issue is not that armies shred you in melee (which they do if they are assault) it's that they are set up to deal with much better assault troops, the BT list looks nice, but (from memory) it was 20 genestealers 2 hive tyrants, a scythed hierodule and pretty sure there were some hive crones too, all making a T1 charge.

                      It's backed up by a ton of anti chaff guns from terms and warriors, that punch holes in screens (not that it is that much needed, the stealers can kill any screen).

                      So you have armies that are set up, prepared to deal with that kind of stuff going in T1. Along with situational shock troops like the alpha legion example above (astartes do the same with raven guard aggressors).

                      So if you set up assuming you get T1, and your scouts are all ready to make a move and charge, they are going to get cut down, you are far better off setting up scouts to hold all objectives, and use more resilient troops like reivers just to be annoying and keep your opponent in their deployment zone.

                      The only thing BT have going for them is special chars with buffs, but blood angels have better ones, so their is no reason to play BT

                    • Prometheus says:

                      As GK player, I don't know that I would call strike squads "assault troops". They can beat up tac marines, that's about it.

                    • Andy says:

                      Hmm in a pure GK army you have to deploy some stuff, so I am guessing that forces the strike squads to baby sit your deployment zone while you get other stuff to deep strike. Thing is point for point, there isn't anything in the GK army list that has close to strike squads firepower (purg squads ofc cos same).

                      I think if you instead look at GK as a battalion of troops to bring to another army, you quickly find strike squads are the money squad, they are cheap, have ludicrous firepower and disgustingly good melee for free, and most importantly have objective secured.

                      In a direct comparison to GK terminators, you get I think 2.5 strike squad dudes for every terminator, when you work it out, you throw away well over 50% of your anti infantry firepower to take terminators and you even have worse melee, cos the banner is per model. Whilst it may seem better to take terminators for resilience, you lose out on so many psychic power casts, ideally if you could you would just take 6 strike squads and not take anything else from the GK list, but sadly you have to have an HQ and patrol is limit to 3 troops

                    • Desc440 says:

                      Having played around with Strike Squads, I can confirm they are insanely good. And mine weren't even optimised (swords and psycannons instead of falchions and psilencers). Objective Secured, deep-striking, mass dakka, Gate of Infinity, 2 D3D Ap-2 attacks each is just fantastic. My 2k list now features a GK Patrol Det w/ a NDK GM and a 10-strong SS. Just stupid good.

                    • Prometheus says:

                      You'd guess wrong, and I really don't need advice playing GK.

                      I aslo wasn't shitting on strike squads. I was just saying they're not really "assault troops".

                      Nor did I mention terminators. At all.

                    • Andy says:

                      I get that, but look at them as troops, it's 6 attacks, 2 of which are pen 2 d3 dmg. There is nothing even close to that available as astartes, as imperium the closest is tempestus. They are the very best assault troops, unless you are willing to use a sokar to drop aggressors.

                      My point is, that the reason you can't play BT as assault, is their troops, are just terrible, they just cannot compete with assault troops from other factions.

        • Mike says:

          CPs may not directly have a points cost, but filling out a Brigade with imperial potpourri is certainly not out of the question for someone who wants CP.

          Now, whether 3 Cenobyte servitors, 2 Acolytes, 3 Cyberwolves, and a smattering of Guardsmen/other cheap Imperial units make for an acceptable path to 9 CP is up to the person behind the list…

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