Astra Militarum – The new imperial guard Warlord Traits, Regiment Rules and Points

Updated with clearer images and text. There is a new video out from WinterSEO where he takes a run through the new Guard codex.  There are some limits to what he is allowed to display in advance of the book being released, but even so there is a lot of detail in this video, which I recommend to anyone who’s looking forward to the new book.

I have grabbed some of the vital info that people are most interested in – in particular, the points (as much as can actually be seen), and the new warlord traits.

A number of units have had their point’s cost reduced, but contrary to rumours there are definitely price increases too. For a case in point, believe it or not if the changes listed below are accurate the 2,000 pts army I took to a tournament recently would need to drop 148 points* of gear or units in order to remain legal.

That might seem surprising considering far more things have dropped in price than increased, but I didn’t use any of the decreasing units -apparently GW’s view on what was overcosted matches my own 😉

*(9 HWT increasing by a total of 18pts + 20 plasmaguns increasing by a total of 120pts)

 

The Plasmagun is apparently now 13 points if you bring it on a model that hits on 3+. It remains 7 on models that hit on a 4.  This is a big increase in cost for the weapon, whether it is carried by Scions or the even more frail Veteran Squads.

The popular 4 man Scion Command Squad with a plasma each has just shot up in cost from 64 points to 88 points.

Heavy Weapons Teams have also gone up in price from 4pts to 6pts. This would move a mortar squad up from 27pts to 33.

The Taurox Prime price tag has gone up, a response to its efficiency as a shooting vehicle.

Valkyries dropped by 20pts (and gained a rule that lets them hit on 4s instead of 5s while moving and thus become useable again)

Baneblade, Shadowsword, Hellhammer dropped by 40pts

Most superheavy tanks had their weapon systems improved – most Baneblade main cannons fire 1d6 more than usual. 3d6 instead of 2d6 for baneblade cannon for example. The Shadowsword’s volcano cannon is now 3d3 instead of d6, which means not only will the average damage output be higher, it will also be a lot less unpredictable. The lowest scoring roll of minimum 1 is now minimum 3, with most results around 6 shots.

Leman Russ dropped by 10pts, although this does not include Tank Commanders and Pask, who remained as expensive as before. As most people will have heard by now they also gain a rule that lets them shoot twice if moving less than half speed. May I just add that most competitive players had dropped almost all or all of their Leman Russ variants from armies; what this represents is the return of the tank as a relevant unit rather than the new ‘Over Powered’ unit.
Hydra dropped by 10pts
Hotshot volley guns down by 3pts

 

New War Gear:

There are three new items of war gear for vehicles (none of which can be used on Baneblades and Sentinels)

  • Dozer Blades – 5 pts: Plus 1 to attack after charging
  • Track Guards – 10 pts: Ignore the negative effect of damage on movement speed.
  • Augur Array – 10 pts: Once per battle, reroll 1 shooting attack

As they can’t apply to the serious Baneblades, these items are of limited value IMHO. Augur Array working once per battle to allow a reroll seems like a poor investment (would you rather have 3 of these, or 5 Hunter Killer missiles?).

 

Unfortunately this is as good as I could manage to get the ranged weapon list. Squint at it if you wish, or save your eyes and your pocket money for next week’s release.

 

Defenders of Humanity & Armoured Armies

Defenders of Humanity: In Battleforged armies, Troops control objectives even if there are more enemy models, which lack this rule, in range of the objective.

In Battleforged armies, Leman Russ units in a Spearhead Detachment (minimum 1 HQ, minimum 3 Heavy Support) gain this ability – in effect, you can now have a fully armoured army with ‘scoring troops’.

Regiment Requirements

Regimental Doctrines – To benefit, all units in the Detachment must be from the same Regiment.

Exception 1:

Militarum Tempestus (aka ‘Stormtrooper’) units can be part of the Detachment without preventing other units from gaining their Regiment, BUT they themselves do not get any Regimental doctrine unless they are also in their own pure Regimental Detachment.

EG:

  • Straken
  • Catachan Infantry Squad
  • Catachan Infantry Squad
  • Vostroyan Veteran Squad
    =No units gain a Regimental Doctrine
  • Straken
  • Catachan Infantry Squad
  • Catachan Infantry Squad
  • Catachan Veteran Squad
    = All units gain Catachan Regimental Doctrine
  • Straken
  • Catachan Infantry Squad
  • Catachan Infantry Squad
  • Militarum Tempestus Squad

= All Catachan units gain Catachan Regimental Doctrine. Militarum Tempestus gain no doctrine.

  • Tempestus Prime
  • Militarum Tempestus Squad
  • Militarum Tempestus Squad
  • Militarum Tempestus Squad
    = All Militarum Tempestus gain their doctrine.

Exception 2:

Players can add any of a list of units to their Detachments without preventing any other units from gaining their Regimental Doctrine. However, the units on this list never gain a Regimental Doctrine.

  • Tech-Priest
  • Servitors
  • Minstorim Priest
  • Crusaders (yes they are AM now)
  • Aeronautica Imperialis (inc Valkyries)
  • Militarum Auxillia
  • Officio Prefectus (Commissars)
  • Scholastica Psykana (the Primaris Psyker, Astropath, Wyrdvane Spacewasters)

So none of the above will ever gain a doctrine, but neither will including them interfere with your detachment’s access to doctrines.

Regiment-specific Orders

Each regiment has an additional order to augment the standard ones. Interestingly, two of these are specifically for Tanks; Cadians getting to reroll the amount of dice on any random shot Turret weapon, and Tallarns getting to move 6″ before or after the tank shoots.

Talarn tank order: move 6″ before or after shooting. Doesn’t affect any modifiers that mention moving.
Cadian tank order: reroll dice to determine tank shots.
Tempestus order: reroll wounds against vehicles and monsters.
Catachans order: reroll flamer hit dice, ignores cover

 

 

 

 

Warlord Traits

Six general Traits available to all:

 

 

 

 

However, if you take a named character as your Warlord, you are required to take their appropriate regimental trait.

 

Strategems

(This is an incomplete list)

  • Voice of command: 1cp for officer in Chimera to issue orders while inside. This only lasts for the turn, so doesn’t turn a Chimera into a classic command vehicle.
  • Vengeance for Cadia: Any AM unit reroll hits and wounds vs Chaos. 1cp
  • Inspired Tactics: An officer can issue 1 more order. 1cp
  • Fight to the death: AM unit can take a morale test on a D3 instead of D6. 1cp
  • Aerial spotter 2cp: Reroll hits with hydra or basilisk model
  • Consolidate squad 1cp, at end of movement phase, merge two infantry squads which are within 2″ of each other. Note that these combined squads cannot be ‘sent in as the next wave’. Costing a CP per consolidation of units, realistically they will not be frequently taking conscript’s jobs away, especially as it also can’t be done by player 2 before player 1’s first turn.
  • Mordian Stratagem 1cp, shooting attack hits of 6 can trigger another attack
  • Cadian stratagem 2cp, if a unit of yours has inflicted a wound on an enemy which wasn’t saved, all other units gain +1 to hit vs that unit till the end of the phase
  • Vostroyans stratagem 1cp, +1 to hit on any vostroyan unit
  • Tallarn stratagem 3cp, use during deployment. Choose up to 3 tallarn units, they go hide. At the end of any movement phase, any can emerge within 7″ of any battlefield edge but not within 9″ of enemy.
  • Tempestus stratagem 1cp, if enemy deep strikes within 12″, you can shoot them at -1 as if it were shooting phase

New Psychic Powers

The old three remain (Psychic Barrier +1 to a unit’s saves, Gaze of the Emperor 2d6 length line with 4+ to cause mortal wound per model crossed, Terrify which reduces LD score). In addition there are 3 new ones.

  • Nightshroud, value 6. Give a unit -1 to hit from shooting attacks till next psychic phase
  • Mental fortitude power: Gives fearless to unit.
  • Psychic maelstrom power: Pick enemy unit within 18″. Roll a dice, on 2+ do MW, then on 3+ do a MW, 4+ etc till one is saved or fails. In theory this could deliver 5 Mortal wounds, but is extremely unlikely to do so.

The Video:

Brief review:

  • The codex looks good, clearly laid out and is packed with character.
  • The army looks powerful. I can’t see much chance of the Guard lagging behind the pack in the way they did during 7th edition. This army will have a significant impact on the meta.

 

-Matt

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73 responses to Astra Militarum – The new imperial guard Warlord Traits, Regiment Rules and Points

"Heavy Weapons Teams have also apparently gone up in price, but I wasn’t able to confirm this."
Bought some stuff to build some for Cult, haven't gotten around to using yet. RIP 🙁 .

"Note that the primaris psyker cost looks the same, but the drop in price for his Telepathica Stave from 12 to 6 makes the total now 6pts cheaper."
Umm…woops? Because 32 (34?) pts is a totally balanced cost for them…

Also of note, Infantry Squads have an asterisk next to them – I think it's something about HWT?

FYI I checked this in the Index and the Telepathica Stave is the one on the Astropath, so the Primaris Psyker is still paying 12pts for the Force Stave he uses, and the model cost will be unchanged at 40pts.

This really hints at a global nerf to smite coming, or maybe i am totally wrong, they drop the 'nid codex and zoanthropes become 1 of in unit size and let the smite wars begin. I doubt it though, i really think we'll see a +1 difficulty on each additional smite after the first, maybe even +2.

It's also possible that Primaris now cast on d6 rather than 2d6, the same way a lot of "baby" psykers do. Or possibly do the 1dmg Smite instead of full, though I would've expected we would hear about one or the other of those if that were the case.

Yeah i had a look couldn't read the text perfectly, but i could see what i thought was identical text, i'd like the book in my hand before i said it was for sure the same.

Overall i think my opinion is GW did an impressive job, i think the relics are super powerful, and i love the ability to include a single real in your face melee HQ in imp guard now, that said, the utitility relics seem even better.

I would have to say, my first glance has thier missions at a bit underwelming, they don't have an "i win the game mission" like Death Guard got, kinda hoping we see a nerf to that tbh, the more i consider it the more op it is.

I especially liek the russes get objective secured though, it feels liek you can now play a Guard Army that epitmoises what it is to be guard.

Smite battery still feels strongest, but it's a better vs what felt like a no choice option.

At first i thought man, this nerfs my brigades a lot, but then i realised, my brigades are stronger, just not as strong as two battalions, theres a cost to getting the 9cps, and overall i am fine with that.

Valkyries i think take some getting used to, going from almost unplayable to having superb utility at cheap cost (they were always resilient) Looking forward to playing games next week and seeing how the vets with plasma compare to tempestus.

I can see a small chance that guard armour lists might make a return with the new tank buffs and prices. And I think we;ll see a few less conscripts around. The 4+ for orders is a bit iffy, especially since they're only really good under orders. Sure, you can burn a command point, but you can only do that command point reroll once per turn/

That Tallarn-specific infiltration stratagem looks extremely powerfull for armour heavy lists… Just imagine a Stormlord loaded with 6 special weapons squads and supported by a Trojan Support Vehicle (for rerolls to hit) and a Psiker (for either +1 armor save or -1 enemy to hit) aswell as 3 Demolishers appearing in your flank within 12″ of your own troops… Very neat alpha strike potential

Well it is interesting, but the troops can't disembark, so no rapid fire range, no melta range and no orders. I think you'll find the storm lord is rather squishier than you imagine, that -1 has to go off, or its toast (might be toast anyway).

The other abilities like that (alpha legion and Raven guard) are one infantry squad, but it's before the game begins, so while you got an awful lot of stuff really close, its's probably not as deadly as 20 beserkers making a 3" charge, likely with jump pack support on turn 1.

Also you need to field a ton of troops to deep strike all of that. Firepower wise i think you are better off keeping the storm lord on your side of the map and advancing with smoke and the psyker t1 (-2 to hit should mean nothings killing the stormlord). T2 you can drop your troops, move and charge, bring down your plasma from space at the same time. Same net effect you get troops near your opponent to do w/e you like with.

They most definitely can rapid fire out of a Stormlord. It can transport 40, 20 can shoot measuring from any point on the vehicle and the vehicle just has to be more than 9″ away. So 40 vets could rapid fire 12 plasma guns with 4 vet sgts firing plasma pistols and 4 heavy weapons firing albeit with – 1 to hit.

Ah cool, i read 12" away, yeah that is tasty then, I have always loved super heavy tanks, and am really looking forward to messing with them.

Can really see scouts going up and up in value to deny all this.

BS-dependant weapon costs is just b*llsh*t imho… You already pay for the BS on the according model!

A Plasmagun should be the same cost all the time, no matter if you equip it on a 2+ SM Character, a 3+ Tactical Marine, a 3+ IG Veteran, a 4+ IG Soldier or a 5+ Conscript!

I also dislike the conscript change. Limiting them to 30 is ok, but that “Orders only on 4+” doesnt solve their main problem which is moral immunity due a Commissar… A better solution would have been to remove D6 Conscripts with Summary Execution.

Everything else looks very solid… The special rules for different Regiments seem to be way better balanced than SM Chapter Tactics.

Guard will definitely stay at a top spot powerlevel-wise.

Not really. The cost of the BS on the model isn't particularly high (It can't be, or they wouldn't be able to sell as many Space Marines!.

A Plasma gun is far more effective on a model with 3+ (4/6 chance of hitting, 1/6 chance of killing self if overcharged) versus a model with 6+ (1/6 chance of hitting, 1/6 chance of killing self) everywhere except overwatch.

If you charge the points for what the good BS character 'should' pay, then it will be overcosted for the 'bad' BS character. If you charge for the bad, the good will be undercosted.

Equipment really needs to be costed based on what wields it, in an ideal world. Practically speaking, there needs to be limits to that, but….

Yeah, this was an essential change, it was part of a broken meta, plasma from space was landing 9" away and just killing anything at all that fell into it's rather broad target range (bascially none infantry, none -1 to hit).

There's no change to smite batteries though is there?, i can't help thinking that means we are going to see a fundamental change to smite, i would guess a targetting restriction or more likely a stacking modifier to cast it based on the amount of casts already in a turn. Whether you like the decisions or not, GW have been so fast to stamp out anything not "working as intended" so i can't believe smites going to last much longer as a primary damage source for armies instead of a back up if you can't cast your psychic power.

Just no…

If BS cost on a model is too low then raise it – there is absoluteley no logical reason in backing the points of a profile-stat into anything else but the model that has the profile-stat!

Weapons have always been costed based on BS of user, lascannon for guard 20, lascannon for space marines 25. Who is going to pay for a plasma gun on BS 4+ troops when you can put it on BS 3+ ones?

It's not like we hadn't guessed and predicted the change, we knew it had to happen for the good of the game.

As i've mentioned before you can't compare guns to guns, you have to compare models to models. Deathwatch kill teams are the only people who can wield frag cannons (maybe blood angels dreads can?) so the cost to field a grav cannon is 49pts, (model+gun) +another 5 pts (cost of 1/4 of the sergeant to go with them. The 30pt gun doesn't look quite so good now it costs 54pts.

The opposite is also true at times, a Dark Reaper is 5pts, that's pretty good price to pay for a unit that always hits on a 3+ is nicely armoured, sign me up for 100 of those please, but they are forced to always take a heavy weapon, the weapon is costed to the point that the model on the table is reasonably priced.

Whilst you paid the same price for a 3+ and 4+ version of the same weapon there was zero incentive to take things like special weapons teams or heavy weapon teams (except as a means to fill out rosters and allow more deep strikes).

So err sorry, but i think there were logical reason to make the change, game balance and to make armies more like the fluff.

The problem is this isn't actually consistent with all the other armies.

Slapping a Heavy Bolter on a Marine vehicle, Devastator, Tactical Marine, etc, is 10pts. The same Heavy Bolter on a Servitor with BS 5+ is… still 10pts. When Guard get a HB for 8pts, I would think that Servitor's HB is more reasonably priced at 6pts, given it's entirely dependent on being babysat by another model to ever fire at better than BS 5+.

CSM Cultists pay 4pts a Heavy Stubber, just like everyone else with access to one of the most underwhelming volume-of-fire options in the 40k universe. They also pay 9pts a Flamer like all MEQ units in the codex pay, the same Flamer in units from Guard, Renegades, Genestealer Cults, etc, get Flamers for 7pts on their T3 line infantry; and this is a weapon that is completely beyond the realm of BS values! Same codex you pay 7pts for a plasma pistol whether it's on a Chaos Lord or a CSM squad leader, despite the exact same 16-17% accuracy difference present between basic guardsmen and vets.

So while the precedent has indeed been set on a per-army basis in regards to relative damage potential from a given weapon, no other army currently (bar GK for their unique specials on MEQ and TEQ platforms being two-tiered) sports this two-tier pricing system that dictates higher BS models pay more for the same gun- despite most armies exhibiting cases of markedly better performance from putting X gun upgrade on Y unit instead of Z unit.

"bar GK for their unique specials on MEQ and TEQ platforms being two-tiered"
Also the entire MC Scything Talon line for nids (I think the same weapon has…6 different costs?), as well as spinefists (just on 3 units).
And nid biomorphs/Tau sig systems.

I mean, those are just unit/unit individually priced differently, rather than a general difference in cost based on BS, so you're correct on that. To be honest, I'm not sure I agree that this was the best solution, but something needed to change. And, say, bumping up vet prices would probably be unwarranted (now, Scions could maybe have done with a cost bump). And I'm not sure that a price bump on plasma on guardsmen would really be warranted either. So…yeah.

I think in most other cases, it's not so much the difference in costing not mattering, just there's quite large differences in the base costing as well as effectiveness. Say, you're never going to take a chaos lord with a plasma pistol over a squad leader with a plasma pistol – the difference in cost is too great for just that. But upgrading a lord would happen over a squad leader, giving you more efficiency. But…it's not the sort of thing that can happen en mass. Most differences in who can take what generally are minimal in scope, or have other opportunity costs associated. But IG plasma on BS3+ was easily spammable, as it was on BS4+ – you just did the former and not the latter, because there's very little difference between the 2 (vets vs guardsmen. Scions get DS as well, which makes it even better on them than vets).

The problem now is that 13pt plasma on BS 3+ makes 7pt plasma on BS 4+ actually statistically out-perform it.

10 Vets with 3 Plasmas clock in at 99pts. You throw out 3 shots, 6 in rapid, and hit with 2 and 4 respectively, in terms of statistical performance.

2 squads of 6 Special Weapons dudesmen with 3 plasmas each, assuming the cost of the basic Guard plasma does stay at 7pts, makes the two squad+s come out to be 45pts each, for a total of 90. Those two squads will throw out 6 shots, hitting with 3, and 12 in rapid, hitting with 6.

In what world does that scaling of price make for "balance" other than driving people to the other end of the spectrum and employing BS 3+ plasmas less generously than before, while having plenty of incentive to keep spamming it on BS 4+ models as a 6pt gap between the cost does not accurately reflect the 16-17% accuracy difference. A difference all the more readily offset on BS 4+ models once the new codex comes out with force multipliers that will reinforce the idea that buckets of dice will take the day over objectively superior individual models/units. Having passive doctrines, cheap stratagems, and the likes, buffing a greater number of BS 4+ plasmas will always outperform fewer numbers of BS 3+ plasmas, even firing on the same buffs. Part of that is chalked up to the way the effectiveness of the two will inherently scale up, and what their maximum damage output is capped at.

Even if you overcharge and get orders to reroll 1s/reroll to hit overall with your vets plasmas on 4+s will outperform point for point. You have the opportunity to kill 5 Terminators at max range with 6 plasmas on your SWS because the same shots can also be buffed, and while you may only wish to spend the resources to buff one squad to the same extent as you would the vets, having 6 shots at least makes for the chance to kill all 5 models a possible outcome. You will never kill the same 5 Terminators if you only have 3 shots to start with, no amount of orders and stratagems will force multiply that to the point of doing more than 3 wounds per shot and allowing for spillage on to other models.

The math currently overwhelming favours the use of plasma on BS 3+ models, and it's a no brainer that any idiot could spot out. Once the changes roll in, the math will favour plasma on BS 4+ models due to the drastic points cost change from 7pts to 13, nearly double. Add to that the 6pt Veteran, or worse in terms of Elysian veterans, Scions, etc, all costing much more, and your 4pt guardsman with 7pt plasma gun has suddenly become a brutally points-efficient bargain-bin buy.

You make a convincing argument, Mike. I haven't actually seen the wording of the new dual-tier plasma weapon costs, but if it is as simple as 7pts on BS4+ or 13pts on BS3+ then the cheap and cheerful Special Weapon suicide squad could be in for a comeback.

They'd sell fewer Space Marines, because you'd have fewer Space Marines in your army.

Plus, yeah – different statistics have WILDLY different effects from different weapons. Weapons act as force multiplier, which means you cannot have a simplistic "They pay for it in their profile" work well as the only metric.

the 4+ order does two important things.

It dramatically lowers their offensive potential and speeds up the game if less people use first rank second rank on blobs of 50(now 30) models hitting and wounding on 5+/5+ or 5+/6+

And it makes it harder for that blob to fall back and shoot.

You still have the option to try it but now you have at best a 75% chance of it working if you are willing to spend the command point.

I think it also helps define them as inferior troops too. It's a nerf, but it came with substantial buffs too.

6" range, 6" rapid fire range, S4, or overwatch on 5+ are all very valid and usuable as is reroll 1's, you can pick the one you like. There had to be some modifier to conscripts and also as you say, units of 50 don't work on the tabletop, too cumbersome. I'll be honest with you, i think 30 is too much, orks can be a little hard to work with.

Master of Command is also good, but Old Grudges i am pretty certain is amazing. Even with the points increase a battalion of Militarum Tempestus is an excellent solution to loads of problems. Getting re-roll to wound on 43 plasma shots seems really good.

Yeah, I think that's probably the best 'general' one. Master of Command? Honestly, almost useless when you think about it (in most situations, anyway) – your 'cost' for Orders is 15 pts (cc issues 2 at 30). Except tanks, which…if you're fielding enough russes but not tank commanders to make use of this I guess it could be quite good? Similarly, Cadian one is pretty meh (basically Master of Command, but without any guarantee of any benefit).

But reroll wounds against a key target? A lot more helpful.

Also, Implacable Determination and Move! Move! Move! could create some amusing strategies (not necessarily good, but 24" move in a turn?). Or more seriously, Forward for the Emperor.

The Tallarn one is the only one that looks good out of the Regiment ones, but I don't think it's as good in general as Old Grudges.

Yeah, Scions still seem pretty good. Rerolls to wound does mean they miss out on reroll 1s though, to make them even more 'suicide' 😛 .

Master of Command plays nice with the Laurels of Command relic. With each order, on a 4+ it let's you give that unit an additional order. More orders means more chances to double up. Get Back in the Fight/Take Aim, First Rank Fire/Take Aim (re-rolling all misses if they haven't moved), Take Aim/Bring it Down, lots of good combos here.

Huh, neat – thought that Laurels was just 'issue another order on a 4+' (i.e. Cadian WL trait) since I wasn't paying much attention.

Still, that only means an extra 50% chance of getting a double order, and you need something applicable to double order to (so, 3+ units and no Harker unless conscripts/lasgunners. I don't think I've seen it yet, except Scions – but you could instead just take Old Grudge for reroll wounds and reroll 1s anyway). Definitely not bad, but opportunity cost of both WL and Relic.

Hmm just to see the difference its a cost increase, we can see overall have Scions really been nerfed?

510 used to get you 39 plasma shots @ 13.08 per shot

620 now gets you 45.5 plasma shots @ 13.63 per shot

So sure a cost increase, but with the ability to now give re roll to wounds to anything in 6" of your warlord is I feel an overall buff to the effectiveness of what is in essence an alpha striking unit.

Since that's a Regiment ability, you also get a (minor) nerf in listbuilding flexibility i.e. you can't just include a prime+tempestus command, or a single unit of scions, or use them to fill out a brigade etc. But still, building a battalion out of them isn't exactly hard…*sigh*

It's also completely useless against -1 to hit.

Yup it does suffer horribly against -1 to hit, star weavers are hilarious vs plasma, but even so, it is in the top tier of firepower. it averages 17.2 wounds off Magnus (assuming my maths is right, is late) killing 7 of your dudes in the process, pretty much take that any day i think.

It will hurt my lists, i did rely on the brigades before, virtually everything i was running got nerfed in fact, (stormlord was actually buffed but i think other super heavies may be better) only the tempestus do i feel got buffed. That's despite them having to pay tons more per gun.

Think its hurt elysians a lot more, they went from 14pts a plasma to 20 but don't get any bonuses for battalion. they also got no bonus on their troop dudes so paying 150 for 8 plasma on 3's and 3 on 4's
means 14.63 per shot you do get better firepower with the lasguns, but no wound option, no auspex scan.

Who took Scions for Plasma-spam anyways?
Elysians do it much cheaper and without limiting Command Squads to Officers… also, they have two buffing characters with the Officer of the Fleet and the Company Commanders in contrast to Scions who only got the Commander

We can probably expect some of the rules and price changes to carry through to the Imperial Armour rules (well… eventually lol).
There was a post above saying Elysian plasma costs went up to 20 but I've not seen confirmation.

Hmmmm yeah i'm guessing an arkurian pattern baneblade's super expensive and the dual earth shaker still has -2 pen (cos different gun so won't get the change)

That said i seem to remember that Nova's rules said use codex if its out, if not use index but use updated gun prices (that would hit the elysians anyway) and i don't think it can be 20 pts, those armies are massively expensive, @ 13 pts plasma they are still viable, they just provide a half anti infantry half anti tank instead of pretty much only anti tank. You still got the totally broken half price sniper squads too. The elysian is a better body for a deep strike shock troop (worse stats so cheaper, but who cares cos neither is going to live long past its entry to the battlefield unless the games close to won).

Though, you could make a case for none codex entries not even getting upgrades to new move and fire and double shot too, and i have to get home so i can work out the exact interaction with blood brothers, i am certain it says just take a detachment, and that would entitle you to missions too. I was just trying to work out if i can use a spartan assault tank to carry my pox walkers or not and it's just a little on the confusing side. I'll just go with the theory the death guard sure own some so it's fine, but i am not certain (it helps a lot cos can field triple super heavy leaving 700pts to buy death guard and horrors or alpha legion). With an average of 27-30 atks vs imperium infantry+ phosphex bombs, Morty can soon get a pox walker squad up to unmanageable numbers.

Well, for starters you need the officer to give reroll 1's to hit on plasma, and secondly i'm not sure you are right, elysians are still just a regiment of imp guard so why would they be immune to the global no more command squads than officers?

Depends if they're a Command Squad with Elysian as the Regiment, or an Elysian Command Squad (i.e. a separate unit entry). I'd guess the second, not having the book or anything, in which case no (the Army List section specifically calls out Command Squads and Tempestus Command Squads).

Matched Play – Command Squads
If you are playing a matched play game, a Battle-forged army can include a maximum of one
<Regiment>Command Squad (pg 15) in a Detachment for each <Regiment> Officer in that Detachment. Similarly, if you are playing a matched play game, a Battle-forged army can include a maximum of one Militarum Tempestus Command Squad (pg 51) in a Detachment
for each Tempestor Prime (pg 50) in that Detachment.’

So only one <Elysian>Command Squad for each <Elysian>Officer

I am not sure why the re-roll ones is important on a fragile unit that deploys within 12″ of the enemy.

It is lovely to get more hits but that squad is dead next turn unless you have already destroyed most of the opponent.

What is a few dead guardsmen to the overall plan?

For 10pts? It's not going on my standard tanks, but since the Superheavies have access to the vehicle upgrades it might be worth considering on some of them.

That same MWG video mentioned that as the first thing they checked – apparently the superheavies can't take the track guards.

Well, no one can argue there wasn't room for buffs for Imp Guard. I think my favourite thing is that you can do a -lot- of things, they feel -way- more diverse than the space marine codex.

Maybe space marines get revisted and we see some buffs to the weaker chapters?

Can we please have the stuff that's NOT fething Space Marines actually get their editions codex before we revise Space Marines?

Well ya, i mean we gonna see Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves before we bother looking at the others right? Oh! forgot thousand sons and Deathwatch silly me!

I am surprised we get craftworlds, not a full Ynarri book, theres gonna need to be a lot of buffs i think, first off i want for sure to get some weapon options on striking scorps and howling banshees. Its so shitty to have these epitomes of close assault excellence, instead flopping about next to the enemy cos they forgot to have the ability to actually kill things. Would a flat A buff on them really be so bad? Harlequins stealers necrons and orks get 4A so easily. I played with Karandras like 20 years ago, he was so damn cool with his skorpion bros, now he is like 300 pt deep strike! Err sorry sir, i appear to be on the wrong battlefield, i was looking for nurglings, seen any? Just open up weapon options a bit, if you want to pay a lot for your banshees so be it. Points costs changes would help to, but the identity of aspect warriors has disappeared with the massive buffs to everything else.

T'au need the IG treatment, they have a viable army atm, but like who really wants to use 2 units when there's 30 to pick from?

Necrons need an identity i think, i would push them in the direction of resilience, maybe a way to get cover saves while in the open be good.

Tyranids just need their points costs sorted, they aren't in the IG/craftworld hole, but there are a number of units they can't use cos while they are balanced for PL games having to pay for the termagents you summon with your 250pt hunk of junk, is kind of a kick in the teeth, even if it lives 4 turns and makes units every turn, and doesn't pay for them, it is still over costed. Swarmlord provides a nessecary way to get tyranidds into melee t1, but at 300 pts he is a little over costed too. Finally the Bio Titan needs some mid range guns added to it, or just some weapon options, dire bio cannons are good against titans, but it is kind of overkill on a space marine squad.

Sure, but like you said, it just makes the Marine book kinda sad… Not underpowered, but certainly far less versatile and interesting.

Something new I noticed: the burn them out order doesn’t just make the target hit by the unit’s flamer lose their cover bonus for this attack. It actually removes cover from the unit for all subsequent shooting during the phase.

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Really liking everything to do with the Tallarn bonuses and stratagem. The 3cp ambush one is a really interesting option for protecting say a super heavy(s) and/or some number of Leman Russ from being alpha struck. Nothing says you have to drop them on top of your opponent. You can just block off a 7″ strip of your deployment zone for the tanks to set up on your first turn so they always get to shoot and have psychic buffs applied.

Yeah Tallarans seem in a pretty good place overall, with a nice combination of options overall. Honestly, most of the regiments seem fine overall, there isn't an obvious "of course you pick this one you idiot" choice, which is good.

Really sad that Renegades and Heretics can't use any of the stratagems or anything, though, and no way Forge World is gonna bother to update R&H to get a bonus. :\

Hmmmm blood brothers can though right? I have no books, but i think you just take an Ad Mil detachment, does anything say you can't make your warlord an HQ from that?

Unless Blood Brothers are listed in the new codex somewhere, not really. The problem is that none of the Renegades and Heretics HQs have the Astra Militarum faction, and R&H can't "steal" any of the AM HQ units, as they aren't on the list available to them. So you'll never have a "pure" AM detachment from using Renegades, and thus you won't gain access to any of their stratagems.

You could, of course, just run pure AM and model them as Renegades, but you wouldn't be able to use any of the "unique" Renegade units, nor would you be able to ally them with CSM or Daemons.

Was just pointing out though while chaos don't get to benefit, Genestealer cults and by that virtue, 'nids get a massive benefit. Take a small cult detachment, then take an imp guard regiment of your choosing, ta da! it's all genestealers in disguise!

Seems a little weird fluff wise, maybe the rules should require a unit for unit or something, but nevertheless, Astra Milititarum with absolute top end assault troops is totally viable.

Say vanguard of Genestealers with a patriarch on the big 20 man unit, and 2 5's. Then just fill a nice big cadian regiment. There's a lot of options here to get top notch assault troops into an imp guard army without relying on substandard space marines. Or just grab Pask and a bunch of russes to shoot people and secure backfield objectives while your tyranid and cults units swarm over the other side.

I quite like Punishers to mow down any attempt to screen vs stealers, and then deep strike stealers for days until you run out of models. No idea on the math but feels like 60 stealers+HQ's and 5-6 leman russ should be viable. Not sure cult stealers are that good vs vehicles though, I know 'nid ones crucify them.

The fact that you can have ObSec Leman Russes just makes the fact that Marines lost Bike Troops even more bullshit.

Yeah, it's a shame about marine bikes not being troops. Eldar could have used troop bikes too.

We actually had someone bring an entirely armoured army to a tournament here recently (Tyson). It was just tanks, hellhounds, manticores and taurox with one little man on foot as the Commander.

He did pretty well, going 4-2 as I recall, so I can only imagine the impact of these rules will have on an army like that. It would be completely transformed – double shooting leman russes, probably rerolling random shot quantities, Objective Secured tanks and so on.

It's a great time to be a tread head 😀

Well, 40k requires armour to be effective, without going into two much depth, there's three ways to build an army:

All infantry, anyone who brings lascannon gets a 25pt bolter with pen 3

All Tanks (or all fliers w/e) Anyone with a bolter is really struggling to hurt anything

A mix of the two

Most of the armies fall into the latter, but the first two have a massive points advantage over the generalist army, forcing so many points to be wasted on inefficient guns.

Sadly uptil now we didn't have any real options for armour. With russes being viable we can see all T8 armies and then all those bolters start to do very little. That's an important step in getting the meta to shift a bit.

Whether the plasma and smite can continue to scare tanks off the battlefield is a question, remember there's a -1 to hit available to super heavy tanks now, out ranging rapid fire on turn 1 is not an issue and i would definitely take it as a win if the plasma comes down out of rapid fire range to open up on my tank. That and the fact you can deep strike with the tank~

This discussion is why I am a huge fan of hellblasters.

For 33 points i get a trooper who is resistant to anti-infantry firepower due to the 2 wounds and has a medium range gun that is deadly to anything without a good invulnerable save.

The ap -4 is very telling vs parking lots and a squad of 5 that gets within 15″ of two razorbacks while having the right re-roll buffs is wrecking one and leaving the other on a handful of wounds.

And if your opponent is running a bunch of t3 infantry they can easily leave the overcharge off and provide devastating fire power.

Sure conscript are not the ideal target but at least they can move and fire at no penalty and double tap.

Not bad for 5 points cheaper than that lascannon.

Hellblasters definitely seem much more viable than they looked at first. The other important thing to remember is that they're a lot more mobile than the traditional 5 man squad with heavy weapon, and a lot more damaging. They outrange the grav cannon, and with their mobility match the plasma cannon and heavy bolter. Easy enough to get re-roll ones for them to make overcharging safer too. The other options don't seem worthwhile though. Just stick with the basic plasma.

Yeah, but I am a bit scared of taking plasma now, -2 to hit on super heavy tank and sokar, If you were a real ass you would jus put both in the same army and be like, k, kill me now plasma.

I think plasma is still the best, but I don't think you can utterly rely on it anymore, T8 -2 to hit means plasma is all but useless. I actually think the russes will be putting us more in the mood to take Lascannons over plasma, just strike and shroud alone buys them one turn, and that can be pretty deadly. Can use strike and shroud on one russ, make one a viable target then hit it with take cover, swap them round the turn after and you force split fire. Or just go full defensive and rely on your free turn of firing to get the job done.

I think armour is now back in the meta, punishers are just a direct upgrade to the Taurox used in the Nova winning list, but more than that, you can put a single Super Heavy full of smites on the battlefield, and deep strike the rest of your army, the super heavy if it goes 2nd should still survive just fine (it can deploy back if it's scared and take cover to get a 2+ sv) Then you deep strike in everything else. The army options are so varied with this kind of list, probably get some scout sentinels to deny deep strike charge on the super heavy, also good to fill up a regiment.

The same concept can do anything really, it is pretty brutal, and the smites can clean up vs assaults whilst allowing all the deep strikes (8 astropaths in a regiment is only 90pts and allows you to deep strike so much).

Is exactly why I like Drop troops with plasma. They cost roughly the same on a gun for gun basis, but come with a free reroll 1's and get to shoot again with 6's. And to rapid fire as soon as they land.

One thing hell blasters don't like is that in a plasma heavy meta, they are just imp guard with a 6+ save, I hide mine in fortifications to prevent them going squish.

That is a huge part of the reason I am hoping to hide mine in deployment and I invest in 3 units of scouts & 2 assault bikes for the flanks to ward off turn one deepstirke attacks.

Leave no inch of the board available for alternative deployment plans is rule one of my deployment unless my opponent has no such capability.

Ya, I been championing scouts over conscripts for a while, they are pretty much the go to anti assault unit for me, who cares if they don't hold stuff up as well as conscripts do, if they do it so far away right~

“Infantry (keyword) units with this doctrine may double the number of attacks they make with Rapid Fire weapons at a range of up to 18″, rather than half the weapon’s range as normal. Vehicles (keyword) with this doctrine treat attacks against them with an AP of –1 as having AP 0.”

So basically, cram oodles of Infantrymen into Chimaeras, unass them outside from the enemy’s own Rapid Fire range, and give them the FRFSRF order. Declare victory.

Rapid Fire normally doubles the number of attacks it makes if its target is within half the weapon’s maximum range. AST's doctrine lets them double tap up to 18" If you were going by that video preview that was floating around, he got some stuff wrong.

Kirby's taking a well-deserved vacation at the moment, so it'll be a little while before the content is back up to full speed. But by all means, write something and send it in!

Do Crusaders have Storm Shields (it doesn't say they are equipped with them, nor is there a points cost) or just the Rule "Storm Shield: Models in this unit have a 3+ invulnerable save" without buying any such gear?