Chapter Approved – Rumors

The CA rumors have been swirling for a while now and we finally have some confirmation as Warhammer Community has released some tidbits. You can check the listed points changes and for the armies who not have a codex, their Warlord Trait, Relic and Stratagems on offer on the Facebook page (give it a like if you have not already; it’s a new one along with a new group page). Quickly running through the changes and their potential impact (I will consider each of these as factual currently but please take with salt until actually seen). There has also been some chatter on changing how detachments from other armies work – how though, we are not sure yet but this could drastically change army make up.

Space Marines

Price drops and hikes across the board. Most notable, Girlyman goes up 25 points, Assault Cannons 1 point and twin Assault Cannons 9 points. I think this is an over-correction on Assault Cannons which are not great outside of Girlyman lists and an under-correction for Girlyman. We talked before about how he was still useful with an additional 80-100 points tacked on. Many lists which run 4 Assbacks are only down 61 points in this scenario but then we take into account the Razorback discount… So Girlyman lists are not dead and while this has been really the only SM list that has been keeping up with the bigger hitters, it will be frustrating to keep seeing the ultimate ruler of the Imperium in every SM based battle.

Chronus up five points is not that big of a deal, particularly when the Predator Autocannon is going down 9 points. Stormraven going up 20 points feels about right but this is compounded by the increase in Assault Cannon costs if you are running them.

We see a lot of point discounts on the Primaris Marines as well but not sure enough to make them consistently viable options.

Death Guard 

Consistent point drops which are nice but like with Primaris Marines, not sure there is enough here to make them a mainstay other than accessing Morty and sourcing better options from CSM / Chaos Daemons. The big thing for all Chaos armies is Malefic Lords getting boned and good riddance. Hopefully we see similar points increases to Primaris Psykers but we still have 45 point Spirit Seers though they are far less able to access cheap screens. Still pending Smite nerf…

Adepta Sorotias (aka Sisters of Battle)

Perhaps one of the best stratagems, for 2 CP you have a 75% chance of shutting down a key psychic power (plus whatever other denys you have). While not as much psychic pressure as Kronos Tyranids can bring to bear, options like this will lead to less armies relying on certain psychic powers / combinations to work. Getting extra Acts of Faith for dying characters is solid – Celestine attacking again is not a bad thing or a cheap Cannoness firing her meltagun one last time but Sisters do not have a bevy of characters to maximise this. Speaking of Celestine, her rumoured points increase is to be expected along with a decrease in her Gemini costs (so overall unit is roughly the same but Celestine solo is more expensive). She certainly deserves a 30-40 point bump and will still be great but not an auto-include (hopefully).

The Relic makes a Cannoness actually decent in combat, taking her to S5 AP-3, D3D but depending upon what the parent army is (or secondary army), there are probably better options out there. Warlord Trait is eh – re-rolls for Morale on an army that normally has MSU is not necessary.

Space Wolves

True Grit is a decent compromise of its old ability and what works in 8th edition, potentially allowing you to clear a unit off a Space Wolves unit and then follow through with a charge (unlikely though unless it’s a small unit). This helps keep SW firepower up and minimises a weakness of most Space Marine lists. You’re still losing out on board positioning though. You also get old Scout rules as a Stratagem and looks to initially be any unit – Thunderwolves may find a use… The Relic being 1D is meh, even if it is -4AP unless we see some sort of damage increasing option for Space Wolves. The Warlord Trait can be awesome for a tooled up combat character (*waits for Russ to come back to life*) and if you are running one, is probably better than the 6+++ generic one.

Deathwatch

A Warlord Trait to re-roll wounds is nice, particularly with some of the weapon options that Deatwatch have available to them. Likewise, the ability to teleport a unit once per game from the Relic can be crazy important at the right time (it is restricted to units and bikers though) but this is mitigated by the limited options Deathwatch have access to. The Stratagem to allow Mortal Wounds on a vehicle is a non-psychic version of Smite though a very, very short range while the final stratagem allowing extra hits against Xenos only means it is only ever going to be effective against certain armies (which, depending on what armies are good can be amazing or terrible. Right now, Chaos and Imperium are dominating).

Drukhari (aka Dark Eldar)

The Wych Cult Warlord Trait can allow a lot of damage throw multiple hits rather than the usual generating an extra attacks. Likewise the Dark Eldar allowing re-rolls of 1s during the Fight Phase can help with the Dark Eldar’s issues of wounding while fighting. How these traits can be applied will be interesting (i.e. can Archon’s only take the Dark Eldar trait?). The PIstol is a cute relic but not amazing compared to the general options but given Dark Eldar have nothing else… And they also get a copy paste version of the Webway which is a fantastic deployment option.

Harlequins 

Advancing a Harlequin unit right into the opponent’s face and slapping a 3++ on it has some merit, particularly combined with the Webway and bringing in two more assault units / high pressure units. Great additions to any Aeldari type army though not cheap. Harlequins are still an additional army to the primary Aeldari’s, particularly with the Ynnari changes (no more Fusion Pistol Troupe Masters running at you in their transport and gleefully doing gleeful things…) but they at least have a little more leverage with these. The Warlord Trait is best replaced by something from Aeldari if running them, likewise with the Relic though the Relic can also assist with Aeldari psychic powers which relate to leadership.

Genestealer Cults 

As we have expected, a lot of the old Formation rules are coming in Stratagems and none is more obvious than in the Cults. Handing out Heroic Interventions and +1 Strength to an infantry unit from the Warlord are the hands down winners from the information we have here. Turning Genestealers into 3+ wounders and counter assaulters are all great things. Bringing back the ability to remove units and come back in with Cult Ambush can alleviate bad Cult Ambush rolls, protect units or relocate units as necessary for missions. Combining well with the Stratagem that improves your probability on the Cult Ambush table and things are looking up for Cults (particularly with the improve Tyranids in tow).

Imperial Knights

Getting an extra attack and an improved invulnerable save? Adding a Knight to an army is not much more appreciable as a 4++ can really make it more durable against ranged shooting. Girlyman still shreds in combat though.

Thousand Sons

Re-rolling Deny the Witch Tests for the Warlord is strong, particularly if TSons get some extra denial layers. We are seeing though with Sisters, Tyranids and now TSons that psychic defenses are being ramped up. I like the Relic in theory, bringing in some old WHFB type magic resistance, but for even a WC5 power you only have 4 doubles options, and one of those is a perils. 1/9 is not exactly reliable and CSM have a lot better Relic options. The new psychic power is interesting – you can pick the unit and on average get 1.5 MW so its not terrible but you are relying on 6’s (on 9 dice at least) so it can certainly stick the hurt on stuff. The fact that you can pick the target is important. The Stratagem means that key psychic test is more likely to go off (combine with Magnus for a +4) and will be harder to deny. TSons have lots of psykers so this should be pretty easy to pull off.

Necrons

Damage reduction on a CCB please! Along with Quantum Shielding and Living Metal, this could become a frustrating model to remove. Shame Necrons have pretty much nothing else going for them currently… Another teleport Relic is great though replacing something Necrons often had access to through Veil of Darkness. Particularly useful to help get units out of combat trouble where Necrons are still atrocious. Wraiths with Reanimation Protocols is not a bad thing but on such small units is costly at 2CP. If the re-roll RP rolls of 1 applies to everything and not just a single unit, that is a very good use of 2CP.

Orks

+1 Strength is never bad and can send a normal Warboss to S9 with just a basic Big Choppa but Power Klaws on your 2+ to hit HQs still seem like the best bet (would need to run the math). Still, S14 for the PKlaw means wound T7 on 2s… The super relic Big Choppa as well comes out nicely with this, giving effective S9 AP-2 D3D but PKlaws may still mathematically be better. The combining stratagem is okay but like we have seen for the AM version, not something that gets used too often, particularly given we need 10+ and 10- models here to meet the requirements. Effectively doubling Orks’ hits into more shots is amusing but given Orks’ terrible marksmanship, the extra attacks are far less valuable than normal.

Tau

Tau’s Warlord Traits are personal Commander abilities which are not always great. Advance and shooting without penalty is probably the best for the Commanders running around with Fusion Blasters, CIBs and Missile Pods still – extra movement is never bad. The bargain bin PENchip Relic is atrocious compared to other Relic options (one re-roll? and a 6+ to gain a CP?) but not bad as far as Tau are concerned (basically it’s free and there is no opportunity cost so why not take it?). The Stratagem is the only decent thing though, allowing you to aim for two 5 ML counters on two separate units (or just not needing as many MLs across the army).


Nothing amazingly game breaking – Genestealer Cults and Imperial Knight getting a 4++ are probably the two solid improvements while they await their codex (though I thought IK got their’s with AdMech…). While a lot of these are lack lustre, they are generally free or add a little bit to an army here and there. There are indications of more points changes and rules changes in Chapter Approved so hopefully this is just the tip of the iceberg for those waiting on a codex drop.

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69 Responses to “Chapter Approved – Rumors”

  1. abusepuppy says:

    I'm not sure if a CCB actually wants the -1dmg thing for Necrons. It reduces your chance of Quantum Shielding triggering, which is big. I guess if it's optional you're better off using it against Dmg2 attacks and letting some of the bigger stuff slip through in hopes of Quantuming it away. The "reroll 1s on reanimation" sounded like it applied to all units, but even so it doesn't solve the real problem of people wiping out a whole unit in one go.

    Tau relic is I believe identical to an existing one (for like Guard or something?), but not exciting. One reroll per game is pretty weak. Warlord traits are better than what they have but still quite weak, since you will only be getting them on BS2+ models that can already reroll 1s in a variety of ways.

    I believe that the "totally not a power klaw guys" Choppa relic that Orks get is better than a regular PK. It's got one worse AP, but hitting on 2s rather than 3s is pretty big. Would depend on the target, obv, but I feel like it comes out slightly ahead against most targets.

    Sisters stuff is quite good. They are gonna be out of control once they finally get a codex (in like 2019 right after every other army in the game and four new armies GW made up to avoid having anything to do with ~~~giiiiiiirrrlllllllssssss~~~~~~~~.)

    • Dakkath says:

      That Tau trait is basically a hardwired target lock. Might be ok on a coldstar, freeing up a slot for a shield generator or something.

      • abusepuppy says:

        Yeah, that's about all I can see it being good for. I suppose you could also slap it onto Longstrike, to give him some built-in rerolls and/or mobility? Not terribly exciting, though.

        • Monterey Jack says:

          My problem with the whole reroll one is it's only rerolled failed hits. and unless I've missed an errata or something rerolls happen before modifiers. So it's really only letting you reroll one and all HQs but etherals (who have no ranged weapons) and longstrike at 6 wounds or less. That's a SM captain ability. The advance and still shoot as if you haven't moved isn't the worst though.

    • Kirby says:

      That is fair – my initial reaction was it went QS first but that interpretation makes much more sense; withdrawn ^^.

      Ya I like the Relic for Orks – will run the math one day.

      SoB got hit hard with Repressor points going up so will be interesting to see what they need to do now that each list is 100 points over or so (assuming Celestine and 3-4 Repressors though Gemina are cheaper if you were running them).

  2. vipoid says:

    I'm not sure whether to be pleased or concerned about the lack of rumours for IG in Chapter Approved.

  3. Prometheus says:

    Primaris are already good, people just don't realize. They kill the same number of MEQ per pt that regular marines do, and of course are more durable with more range.

    I'm actually a little worried they'll be too good with a pts drop.

    • Kadeton says:

      I guess the balance to that is they make any D2 anti-infantry weaponry super effective? Plasma in particular is absolutely perfect for massacring Primaris, and there's a ton of it in the current meta.

      • Prometheus says:

        I mean sure, if you use the right tool for the job, then they still die as fast as a regular marine….but those things are still not that common, and you'd still rather a plasma shot go into a Primaris than a terminator, say.

        • Andy says:

          I'm afraid both you and kadeton are both right, Terminators and Primaris are pretty much cannon fodder given the amount of plasma weaponry available and just how much it hurts them.

          I think Primaris real weakness is the lack of a cheap transport to offer them some anti alpha strike protection. That said, i am having some luck with Ravenguard Hellblasters, the -1 really puts people off overcharging at them, and the firepower is more than respectable.

        • abusepuppy says:

          >but those things are still not that common

          Plasma is super, super, super common. So are many other multidamage weapons.

          • Prometheus says:

            "…super, super super, common"?!? What exactly does the word "common" mean to you? They're not as common as bolters, are they? An army might have 15, if someone went really nuts with the Hellblasters.

            Fight me, Puppy. Fight me about semantics.

            • Kirby says:

              They are something most armies have regular access to, just like meltaguns were super super super common in 5th edition. That did not mean they outnumbered bolters but it meant every army had quite a few.

              • Prometheus says:

                Yeah, ok, but like I said, that means max 15. It's not something you're generally going to be firing at infantry.

                Primaris are good.

                • Matt-Shadowlord says:

                  There are 15 times (literally 15) more plasma guns in my Guard army than there are bolters.
                  That's what "common" means to me. Fight me, Prometheus. Fight me about semantics!

                  • Prometheus says:

                    …..so zero bolters and 15 plasma? Yeah. Like I said.

                  • Andy says:

                    In fairness, it had been a confusing time for plasma, over the course of 8th ed i went from 60-80 plasma shots in the early days (enough to kill the repulsors and all the primaris in them in alpha strike pretty easily), to just the sponsons on my russes when I could deep strike them (20), to zero as i swapped to artillery in the face of deep strike nerfs.

                    So now artillery is nerfed, probably still the best option, though i personally just like russes so I think i am likely to be fielding around 20 plasma shots again from the russ sponsons.

                    That is certainly a world where i think primaris become viable, just well still not as good as scouts so errrrrrr i think i just wasted my time~

                • abusepuppy says:

                  Please, no one pop Prometheus's strange little bubble. Anthropologists will one day have so much to learn from him and the Bizarro Planet that he inhabits.

  4. Prometheus says:

    I agree that the Tau "upgrades" mostly seem awful. Probably been listening to Reece.

    What I really need is a way to make Longstrike tougher. Reading the new tyranids codex and Old One Eye essentially acts just like Longstrike does, but he's 9 wounds and is never going to get shot up turn 1. Very frustrating.

    Strange that I haven't seen any leaks of GK pts changes.

    • Andy says:

      Didn't old one eye used to get an extra attack if he hit, not on 6 to hit? i felt he was nerfed, as a nid player i don't really care if i have 1 monster you can't shoot at, cos i got another 3 you gonna shoot anyway, so feels old one eye is weaker now.

      As for GK point changes, lets hope not, it can't be good news for strike squads if there are point changes.

      • Prometheus says:

        I have no idea what he was before, but he gives carnifexes, including himself, plus 1 to hit. So, just like longstrike. But longstrike usually dies first turn and this guy can't even be shot at because he has 9 wounds and is a character.

        • Andy says:

          Yeah i checked:

          Berserk Rampage: Each time you make a successful hit roll for Old One Eye (except for thresher scythe attacks), you may immediately make 1 additional attack with the same weapon against the same unit. These additional attacks do not confer extra attacks.

          So, the codex version is 60pts more, has 1 less W and 5 less attacks. He was T7 with a 3+ i mean its not like the lascannons are going to magically dissappear now he can't be shot, something else in my army is going to get rinsed instead.

          I strongly urge you do not wish for the kind of "buffs" old one eye got. He can't even one shot knights any more jesus GW, where is the BALANCE!?

          • Prometheus says:

            Seeing as 10 wounds is the worst number of wounds for a character, -1 wound is a huge buff. I would happily have Longstrike be 9 wounds.

            • No One says:

              He was 10 wounds before (2 more than a base fex). And mostly was just a throwaway unit expected to die. Now he's +1 and 60 pts more, but gets <10 so is good.

              Longstrike: A: Doesn't even have a Codex.
              B: Hammerheads are 13 wounds base. I…would be _amazed_ if GW made him weaken his tank by driving it 😛 .

  5. Ish says:

    I say we just campaign hard to raise the price point of Gulliman, Mortarian, Eldrad, and every other unique character by a ridiculous amount: like 200% of whatever they’re currently costed… or maybe just bring back the “No Named Characters!” rule of yesteryear.

    I am sick of seeing gorram Primarchs and Star-Gods personally leading every skirmish.

    • Prometheus says:

      GW has on purpose (because they want to sell the models) made named characters indispensable to the operation of various codexes. All those Chapter Masters, but also things like Drazhar or Kharn to boost specific units.

      That's why you don't see "no named character" rules anymore, it would effectively be banning whole categories of play.

      • abusepuppy says:

        Eh. Some named characters are great, most of them aren't very good, just like any other unit.

        • Prometheus says:

          You're being contradictory without purpose, Puppy. I never said they're all great, but some are lynchpins to certain army builds. And all marines love their reroll bubbles.

        • Ish says:

          I honestly do not care about their effectiveness (or lack thereof) in the game… I’m just sick seeing them on EVERY table.

          Make generic Chapter Masters / Sorcerers / T’au C’ommand’ers viable again!

    • Andy says:

      I went to the effort of writing a short story in the vain hope of justifying my inclusion of celestine in my army, in the end, didn't make me feel any better about it. Luckily with the improved Tyranids its no longer a problem, since nids posess thousands of old one eyes and swarm lords across many planets yay!

      • Matt-Shadowlord says:

        It's going to take more than a short story to justify Celestine in your nids, mate 😀

        • Andy says:

          Hmmmm, you know, i don't think i would take her if i could in the nid army. She is basically a substandard hive tyrant right? she isn't even psychic!

          hmmmmmmmm hive tyrant with 20mm base…..*drools*

  6. Prometheus says:

    BTW, I have a feeling like there will be a wave of FAQs around Chapter Approved. They're really obligated to release the points changes for free, any rule changes too — certainly any for the codexes but also likely for the main book — like match play changes. (which likely everyone will quickly memorize quickly, anyway, likely it's not many)

    The more I think about it, the more likely that we're not seeing leaks of rules changes because they have little motivation to waste page space on that. They really just want to promote extra missions and silly stuff like that.

    • Ish says:

      In what way is Games Workshop “obligated” to make this content available for free?

      Sure, it’d be nice of them to do so… But “hey, that’s nice” is a long way from “obligation.”

      • Prometheus says:

        Points adjustments to codexes that people actually bought? Yes, they're obligated. I have no doubt that they will, but they're absolutely obligated.

        • Ish says:

          You’re just repeating the assertion that they are obligated, you’re not saying _why_ they are. It would be good customer service, of course, and engendering customer goodwill is an awfully important part of keeping those customers loyal… But that does strike me as an absolute moral imperative.

          “The product you bought last year has been superseded by this year’s model.” is a fairly common business practice, especially in the hobby industry. No one would expect Wizards of the Coast to replace their collection of ‘Magic’ cards, for free, every season. No one expects Electronic Arts to give them ‘Sportsball 2018’ for free once the ‘Sportsball 2017’ rosters become outdated. So on and so forth.

          Games Workshop isn’t obligated to hand you stuff for free.

          • Prometheus says:

            I don't want to go through this again with you. You're a shithead who feels obligated to argue it ad nauseum every time.

            Yeah, they're obligated to keep their game updated, for free. I'm not going to list out all the reasons, you already know them.

            • Ish says:

              I’m not arguing anything, I’m genuinely trying to understand why you feel they are obligated to do something… But when I ask you why, you just say they obligated to do so because they’re obligated to do it. Tautological assertion is a tautology that is tautological. 😉

              Near as I can tell, nothing in the Chapter Approved 2017 book has any impact on the basic game, only the optional modes (i.e., matched play) found only in the paid-for advanced rule book. I have bought Chapter Approved yet, so maybe I missed something in the 40k blogosphere coverage…

              Errata and addenda to the basic rules, advanced rulebook, the codices and the indices are still available as free PDFs.

            • Alastores says:

              What exactly is obligating them?

              Legal reasons?
              Moral imperative?
              Fiscal sense?

          • Kirby says:

            I do have to agree a little bit with Prom here – at least having the points changes included in a FAQ or updated on digital copies without a hassle. Lots of computer games update their software free of charge as well, and other game companies like PP are providing wholesale changes for free.

            When the company admits to getting something wrong (i.e. points or rules), I do believe it is fine for customers to expect that correction does not come with a cost. At best, Chapter Approved (minus all of its other tidbits) is a huge Errata / FAQ document which are already free.

            • Alastores says:

              I sort of agree as well. They just aren't actually obligated (compelled via legal or moral reason) to do so, as far as I can see.

              That said….they do seem to be treating their latest physical world games in a similar way to computer games. Updating a computer game is easy. Updating a physical game is not. I would much prefer them to have spent awhile longer actually getting 8th edition closer to right, because the amount of stuff they are feeling the need to change indicates something's not right with their rules pipeline.

              • Kirby says:

                Indeed – I am all for quick fixes that are tweaks (i.e. the turnaround for Commisars was two weeks) but I would rather there not be issues in the first place. Big wholesale changes are harder pills to swallow and while I much, much prefer GW to address issues as they crop up rather than let the edition suffer, it means I would not rush out to buy anything until at least the FAQ drops for a new codex.

          • Kadeton says:

            Those don't seem like good analogies to me. You're not getting Sportsball '18 for free, you're having to pay for a patch update to Sportsball '17, and if you don't buy it, the game won't run any more. Everybody expects to get software patches for free, because the existence of a fix implies the original product was faulty.

            Similarly, this isn't replacing your collection of Magic cards. It would be more like WotC adjusting all the mana costs of your existing cards, but saying that you weren't allowed to know what those adjustments were, or play in any tournaments, unless you paid them $50.

            That's really what this comes down to. Is Chapter Approved mandatory to continue playing the game? If I choose not to buy it, do I just keep using the old points costs? Can I still play my army at organised play events?

            If it's a necessary 'fix' for an existing product that is made compulsory by preventing those who don't purchase it from engaging in official events, then I think there would be an interesting legal avenue to force them to release those updates for free – at least in countries like Australia, which has strong consumer protection laws. All the new stuff in the book would be fine, but I think GW should be very careful about charging for points cost adjustments and rules changes.

            • Kirby says:

              I think GW will get away with it easily – it's a book with new content. The counterargument is of course then you can provide us the updated points in FAQs.

              • Kadeton says:

                Yeah, I think that was Prometheus' original point – the new content is fine and dandy to sell, but points and rules updates should be available to everyone.

                • Alastores says:

                  Which is kind of why we were asking "Why do you feel they are obligated", given his previous comments about he was promised the entire ruleset for free (he wasn't. Well, he might have been, the rest of us weren't, I guess). So the question was "Are you aCTUALLY saying they are obligated, or is this more of the same rant".

                  • Kadeton says:

                    Honestly, that sounds more like picking a fight on a technicality than addressing the actual point. Don't get me wrong – Prometheus is frequently an argumentative asshat, but the question of whether GW is going to make the points and rules adjustments in CA freely available, and what the consequences for them might be if they don't, is totally legit.

                    Going back and forth about whether those potential consequences technically constitute an "obligation" is just a waste of everyone's time.

                    • Alastores says:

                      Well, no. "They should" and "They are obliged to" aren't really the same thing. By saying that they are 'obliged' to, Prometheus either doesn't know what the word means, or is deliberately implying some force that is capable of making Games Workshop release this information for free…or he has some reason to believe that they are actually obligated.

                      Hence the question – what does Prometheus feel is actually making them "obliged"?

                      I agree, they should. But I can think of no reason why Games Workshop is actually legally or morally required to, and since I assume Prometheus knows the meaning of the word and ISN'T lying, it's a valid question to ask "Why do you think they are required to by law or moral imperative".

                      You can certainly say it's a waste of time, but I disagree.

                      Firstly: – There's a certain amount of false outrage generated by using the term 'obliged' if they are not, in fact, obliged to.
                      Secondly:- Prometheus has a habit of overblown claims about what exactly GW should give him for free, mostly justified with "Because I'll pirate it anyway".
                      Three:- I was curious to see if there actually WAS a reason obliging them.

                    • Kadeton says:

                      Or he's just using the word informally, and everybody is focusing on that to the exclusion of all else. The way that certain people will maul each other to death over semantics on this site does my head in.

                    • Alastores says:

                      The only "mauling" came from his end. Both me and Ish were asking for his reasons. This is a valid part of discussion. If he was just using it informally, then all he needed to do was say so, rather than "i have reasons, but I'm not going to tell you them", and then swear.

                    • Kadeton says:

                      In a vacuum, that's true. I'm talking about the site as a whole. 🙂

                    • Alastores says:

                      Fair enough. I'll certainly argue semantics a lot. Words are important, and using the wrong one can change the entire tone of a comment. -shrugs-.

            • Ish says:

              >> That’s really what this comes down to. Is Chapter Approved mandatory to continue playing the game? If I choose not to buy it, do I just keep using the old points costs? Can I still play my army at organised play events? <<

              There's a lot to unpack here. But, let me try to play Devil's Advocate.

              Q1) Is Chapter Approved mandatory to continue playing the game?
              A1) No. The game can be played without CA, indeed, the standard/basic game can be played without the rulebook.

              Q2) If I choose not to buy it, do I just keep using the old points costs?
              A2) Not in Matched Play; But, you don't actually have to play Matched Play. You can always play without using points.

              Q3) Can I still play my army at organised play events?
              A3) Obviously, this is up to the individual(s) organizing the events, but it's almost a certainty they will all adopt the latest Matched Play rules. But, hey, that's just part and parcel of deciding to play at the tourney level.

              So, bottom line, I think it would be good customer service to release some "bare bones" documentation that has the Matched Play points changes and other such vital information… But, no, I don't see how they are obliged to do so.

              • Kadeton says:

                They're clearly not obliged, that's a furphy. There would have to be specific legal precedent for such an obligation, and I doubt it's ever been tested.

                If a legal case were to be made that they should be obliged to make the fixes freely available, I imagine it would hinge on the "experience" that they're selling. Yes, you can technically "play the game" in one of the pointless "Do whatever you feel like!" modes, but that's arguably akin to advertising a computer game's online multiplayer, and then once it's been out for a while, telling players they can only play the single-player campaign from now on unless they fork over some more cash.

                I definitely agree that it would be in GW's best interest to release all the changes to existing rules and points separately to CA.

              • Andy says:

                just go to official GW tournies only, they all PL based and none of that changed~

                • Kirby says:

                  Which as we know is a terrible system (before we even get into the laughability that is GW tournaments).

                  • Andy says:

                    See this is an interesting point, with chapter approved release on top of the codexes changes over indexes, we can prove that any points value on a model has an error margin in the region of 20%

                    Right now 13pts is what a tactical marine costs, and 12pts for a dire avenger, 8pts for a guardian. These are all high, if you dropped the cost of these units by 20% they would all be solid units and not ridculously game breaking

                    Therein you see lies the issue, you have to build an army under the restrictions of whatever rules are laid out, could i do a better job balancing the game than GW? possibly, i am pretty smart, but i have my own biases, if i was blancing the game, you would see far far less infantry and far more big stuff, i like big stuff.

                    GW balance seems to be based on encouraging infantry, certainly they are out by over 100% on the costs of all the big stuff now, as you may recall, i was assuming this must be due to some bonus effect titanic must give, (i don't know what it can be, i simply hypothesise based on the truly ridiculous cost of big stuff) By all means T9 should cost more than T8 but it makes you 33% harder to hurt with S8 25% harder to hurt with S9 weapons and a bit harder to hurt with S16 and s17 ones, but thats it, that is the grand total effect a model having T9 has.

                    So when you say laughability, i would direct you to the points costs changes in chapter approved, just how many things saw massive changes (10%+).

                    Points cost is what you are used to, it is part of the fun of the game pouring over lists to eek out every possible advantage, but that does not mean it is balanced, it just means differrent things are over powered.

                    I think it would be advisable to actually be a good thing to run up a few PL lists, see how they go, see what they feel like, before adopting the automatic "PL sucks points are better" that the entire community goes for, because humans prefer to reject change out of hand as soon as it happens, rather than consider is this change better what does it mean.

                    • Andy says:

                      Sorry I should really add, that one of the most ridiculously powerful units (Aggressors) that has taken the community roughly 4 months to work out are actually good, just got a points cost reduction too from 43 to 37, for a 13% swing.

                      One of two things is going to happen, raven guard arrival timing is going to be changed, or their points will go back up. Unit way too good.

                      Another thing i think colours my opinion is i live 40miles from Nottingham, i can choose to enter as many PL or points based tournaments as i want to, and since my experience with the ITC points based ones is terrible, and my experience of the PL ones has been they are a great day out i suspect i am more biased than most.

  7. inqplayer says:

    Any chance to get the exact wording on that ork combine thingy. For it its really good if its just any squad with any squad -> adding nobz to boyz etc and near useless if its boys + boyz only

  8. Andy says:

    Chapter Approved – The winners and losers

    I thought i would sum up now i've done messing how chapter Approved affected my best performing lists, obviously i'll skip over the stuff like the sokar and redoubt cos there is no way to rebuild the army.

    Eldar Deepstrike

    So the shadow spectres cost 10pts more, running two sets of them isn't an automatic but you got a new option in harlequins, you are still very fragile, but your alpha strike is still the thing of nightmares, nothing was changed either you can still make ynarri shadowspectres -3 to hit for 2cp and a psychic power. Harlequins have been added which can do the same thing as the Wraithblades, they are cheaper, more reliable and better consistent damage over the course of a game, but much mroe fragile and don't have clsoe to the wraithblades alpha strike (though they do have a more consistent one).

    Overall its still a glass cannon one trick army, its a good trick, but its a lot less efficeint, the points changes mean you don't have as much stuff, so going 2nd actually hurts a lot more.

    Imperial Soup

    Two of the detachments got arguably better (2pts more expensive but i get an extra gemini superia) but the smite battery and the artillery got significantly worse, leman russes look to be the way forward here but i'm not certain, Basilisks are pretty solid, might be Pask + basilisks. If you were runnign tauroxes they got a bit hammered, but the change to ravenguard should be fairly reasonable (15w of scouts and 12w of aggressors does hurt vs the 50w of taurox) my concern is there's not enough stuff to get shot any more.

    Poxwalkers + Primarchs

    The 3 super heavy + 2 battalions is just gone, there's no viable HQ now the Malefic Lords are sensibly priced. It hurts a bit given you do go through CP very fast, but theres plenty of decent options, the Lord Of Skulls got a price bump, and sadly the Chaos Knight doesn't get the 4++ stratagem, Zarakynel is also out so you can either run DG Batallion+ Super Heavy or DG + 2 Auxillary. the latter is quite a lot better, but it only has 6cp, which is basically nothing. Also your cultists are a bit weaker, theres no way to cheese it and get Alpha legion ones any more.

    Overall i'm still testing, the army is still incredibly powerful, but it is significantly weaker than it was.

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