The Ride of the Valkyries, Part 1

Hey all! I’ve decided to break into the world of 40k blogging with a three part mini series on the oh-so-fun AirCav Imperial Guard lists. The three parts will be: 1). Hybrid AirCav Guard; 2). Pure AirCav Guard; 3). AirCav Guard Common Tactics

Now I know this may seem backwards, and logic would dictate we start with a “Pure” variant of AirCav first before delving into a Hybridized version, but I have found through trial and error (and plain old experience) that it is by far a LOT easier to create a fun/themed AirCav list that is semi competitive than it is to create a “Pure” list. The reason behind this is two fold: firstly, Pure lists are EXTREMELY constrained (i.e. all Valks/Vends and all squads….not much else), and so the problem faced is trying to make something that’s powerful with very little at your disposal. Secondly, and this ties in directly with point #1, since you are so limited in what you can take, you end up creating cookie cutter or clone units, which is not only extremely dull and boring theme/fluffwise, but let’s face it, it’s just plan old boring to play with. Case in point: when writing this, I tried to draft up a “quick” Pure list for 2000pts. What did I end up with? 3 Valks, 5 Vends, 2 CCS’s pretty much tooled up the same, and 5 Vet squads all loaded out with 3 meltas and nothing else. Sure, it had a fairly nasty bite (on paper), but it just looked…unoriginal and boring. And seriously guys, if we’re going to play an AirCav list, it really should be FUN and have some life, in addition to having the ability to be competitive on the table.

As for the tactics piece, I will touch on them here and there in the next two posts, but I’m saving the crux of the tactics discussion for part three where I will lay out how to get the most out of the AirCav and their traditional lack of firepower. In essence, I’ll go into how to use the principles of Mass and Economy of Force (hey I’m in the Army, this stuff finds its way into how I game whether I like it or not) to make sure you get the most bang for your buck. Lastly, I’ll use this discussion to try to show that AirCav has nothing to fear of Mech Armies out there, and that even feared lists like the vaunted “Leafblower” list have weaknesses which can be exploited Who knows, that may lead into a whole new discussion later on down the road…

And so without further ado, I present, building a Hybrid AirCav Army…

Ok first things first, we need to determine a few things. Namely, how large will our troops footprint be, and thus, how many birds will we need to get them from point A to point B. Personally, I find 4 Vets squads is a solid force, especially given that the most objectives you’ll ever see are 5, 4 squads gives you more than enough to grab/contest most objectives. Another key piece with these squads is function. In a weird reverse concept, in AirCav lists, Guard troops should be focused with knocking out vehicles/high T targets. Guard AirCav vehicles are there to do double duty as Anti-Tank and Anti-Personnel. So for troops let’s get:

(Veteran Squad, Shotguns, 3X Meltaguns, Demolitions, PW) X 2
(Veteran Squad, Shotguns, 3X Meltaguns, Grenadiers, PW) X 1
(Veteran Squad, Shotguns, Heavy Flamer, 2X Meltaguns, Grenadiers) X 1

So we’ve got a nice little core for 560pts. While they are fairly “clone”-like at this point, they also have enough differences which make them unique and fun. Heck, you could (if you were like me and played this army) could even go so far as to create some background and “fluff” to why they’re tooled out as they are. Moreover these difference also have a game function, for each team has it’s own specific function/job. Demo Vets are primarily the “One-Hit Wonder” Boys. Get in close to tanks as quick as possible, toss a demo charge, melta some things, and if they survive the return fire, awesome! They’ve probably already killed what they needed to. Alternatively, they can be used to try to thin down a mass of troops, though this is a risky use for them seeing as
Demo charges are extremely fickle. As for the Grenadier Vets, their job is more focused on taking out things that have a greater chance of surviving their initial shots and can strike back, i.e. Dreads, Termi squads, Tyranid Warriors, etc. Alternatively, they can be thrown in the dedicated anti-tank role in a pinch and excel.

So we’ve got our troops, now we need to get them places. So let’s look at what we have and don’t have. We’ve got 11 meltaguns, so our 12″ or closer AT is covered; we’ve got 24 Shotguns, so low S torrent of fire shots at 12″ or less is covered; and we’ve got a Heavy Flamer so there’s some close range anti-horde. In general then, we are severely lacking long range anything, though our biggest lack is anti-horde. So…let’s get..

(Valkyrie, MRP ) X 2

We’ve now got some very nice mid range torrent of fire style anti-horde at 260pts. These guys can move 12″ and pump out 4 S4 large blast plates in addition to 6 S6 shots. Seeing as they’ll most likely outflank or deepstrike, you can even use them in a pinch to try and snipe some AV10 side armor,

Let’s get some AT then shall we?

(Vendetta x 2) X 2

Basically get two squadrons of 2 plain Vendettas for 520pts. Why no HB sponsons you ask? Firstly and bluntly, they’re a waste. Their firing arc is severely limited, due to their position under the wings, and moreover 90% of the time what you’re shooting at, a HB can’t hurt. And those few times you can use a HB, you’ll end up wasting your TLLC shots. No, better save points and let more dedicated torrent platforms mop up the rank and file. These guys job is to basically snipe enemy armor, plain and simple. I’ll get into deployment option with them later.

So what do we have now? We’ve spent 1340. Nice, 660 points left. So let’s look at the leadership for this army. We know they’re going to be up close and personal so we need to make sure the CCS is right up there with the Vet squads providing LD and any bonuses possible. So let’s get

(CCS, 3X Melta, Medic, Astropath, Bodyguard, Carapace, Straken) X 1

Coming in at 270 points, we have 3 more meltas for our close range AT arsenal, bringing the total to 14 all told. Additionally we have a badass counter assault (or dare I say, Assault?) unit that bolsters those around them. They’ve got 4+ FNP save so they’ll last longer to shooting and assault (two things which they’ll face a lot of), and the Bodyguard means Straken can almost be guaranteed to get in contact. And remember, he’s no IC so can’t be singled out in CC, which means he can pretty much go toe-to-toe with bigger, badder guys out there and dish out the hurt. Moreover, he buffs any squad nearby with Counterattack and Furious Charge. Assuming he survives his first turn on ground (which is more than likely, unless they concentrate so much effort into killing him. In which case, so be it because they’re ignoring your other threats, like those Vendettas), the following turn when he assaults (for he WILL..and so will any squad nearby) he and his CCS and whoever near will unleash a very nasty surprise upon the enemy.

Ok so 1610. Time to look at the rest of the Force Org. We’ve tapped out FA, and have a solid Troops selection. We could go for another Troops choice, but before we make that decision, let’s add some more fire support into this mix and add in what makes this list a “Hybrid” AirCav list. So let’s start off with a no brainer Heavy Support choice, what I like to describe for Army theme and for campaigns as “off board artillery strikes”, the very popular Manticore.

Manticore X 1

Alright, 1770, we’ve got 230 left to go. Looking over the list, it needs something to fill in the gap between between long range AT and long range AP. We’ve got the equivalent of 12 TLLC for long range AT, and 4 MRPs and 2 MLas for long range AP control. The Manticore was one choice which fills in this disparity, being equally capable of wiping out vehicles or troops (as an aside, one reason I love the Manticore and 5th ed is everyone’s reliance on putting vehicles as close together to get cover saves from direct fire weapons, that they forget all about indirect fire ordnance weapons like the Manticore which scoff at such feeble attempts at protection. Pack all those AV 11 vehicles close together? Yes please, and cry as I drop 1-3 S10 pie plates at once all over them). Moreover, we need something that can do both AND lay down a fairly large volume of fire. So…

Hydra X 2

Alrighty, 1920, we’ve got 80pts left. And since we have a Heavy Support slot open, and Hydras are good at what they do, and it’s never a wise move to put all your eggs in one basket (i.e. both Hydras in the same squadron), let us buy…

Hydra X 1

Now some may cry, “But a true recon strike force won’t have…yadda yadda yadda.” Guess what? Light Infantry forces the world over have heavier vehicles in them, as do elite airborne units, so having 3 Hydras or a Manticore is completely within in the realm of “fluff” or theme for an AirCav list. There are a plethora of legit reasons and backgrounds why an AirCav force would have such vehicles supporting them (I mean, they’re an AirCav force afterall and would know the importance of Air Defense). As for me, I plan on doing some high speed conversions once I get some money and turn these into some Hydras. Basically either take the Hydra Quad AC top and green stuff it on, or buy 4 FW aircraft AC’s, chop off the LC’s on the model and then green stuff it into place. Basically make it the AirCav’s high speed, light weight, torrent of fire dual role vehicle: able to cut down swathes of infantry of light vehicles alike. Akin to the Quad .50cal Half-tracks of WWII.

Anyway this Army comes in at 1995. Not bad. So whats the end result look like?

HQ:

Company Command Squad – Vend 4
3X Meltaguns
Astropath
Carapace
1X Bodyguard
Medic
Total: 175

Iron Hand
Total: 95

Troops:

Veteran Squad (all with Shotguns) – Vend 2
Demolitions
3X Meltagun
PW
Total: 140

Veteran Squad (all with Shotguns) – Vend 1
Demolitions
3X Meltagun
PW
Total: 140

Veteran Squad (all with Shotguns) – Valk 2
Grenadiers
3X Meltagun
PW
Total: 140

Veteran Squad (all with Shotguns) – Valk 1
Grenadiers
Heavy Flamer
2X Melta
Total: 140

FA:

Valk Squadron (2)
MRP
Total: 260

Vendetta Squadron (2)
Total: 260

Vendetta Squadron (2)
Total: 260

Heavy Support:

Manticore
Total: 160

2X Hydra
Total: 150

Hydra
Total: 75

Total: 1995

What you’ve got for long range AT is: 12TLLC, 6 TLAC, and Manticore; long range AP is 4 MRPs, 2 MLas, 6TLACs (when not doing AT duty) and a Manticore (when not pulling AT duty). Close range firepower you’ve got 14 meltas and 2 demo charges for AT, and a plethora of shotguns for AP. Now you might be wondering, why shotguns? Simple, this army will almost NEVER be outside of the 12″ attack range (barring getting shot down…which can be mitigated with cover and mobility). Moreover, this army will almost never use the FRFSRF, so there really is no benefit of having lasguns. Plus, shotguns allow you more tactical flexibility, i.e. the ability to surprise your opponent with a well timed/coordinated charge.

As for the tactics side of the house, I’ll dive into more depth on that later, but for now these very basic principles should suffice: outflank the Valks and the Vet Vends. Start Strakey and his guys in their Vends on the board from the get go to provide some nice AT (and to also negate anyone who may argue that you can’t use the Astropath ability when he’s off the board. We play that so long as he’s alive – regardless of whether on the board or not – his ability is in effect. I have heard it by others elsewhere though, that he must be physically on the board for it to take effect. So if you don’t know how your opponent will play it, simply start the CCS on the board.) Basically hide the Manti in cover and use the Hydras to block movement lanes. As for the Vends, keep them off in cover and play the ” Scout move turbo-boost into more cover” to ensure you can get a good shot off on your first turn. The it’s a matter of holding your own for 1 turn, and then playing Wagner’s “Ride of the Valkyries” obnoxiously loud on turn 2 as the rest of your army arrives in a flurry of TLLC shots and S4 templates.

Now this is not a be-all, end-all “Hybrid” AirCav list. It’s an example, but hopefully the principles can be extrapolated by any interested parties and instituted in their own lists. It’s a list type that meets both my initial criteria I laid out at the start for AirCav lists: they should be fun/unique/thematic and they should have a competitive edge.

Thoughts/musings/opinions are always welcome.

Fire Prisms and holo-fields

We’re back with some silly stuff. First read this post please. Now that we’ve covered that let’s look at Prisms in isolation. This came up because I was watching a game and someone commented he should of taken Holo-fields (HF) after one of his Prisms was destroyed (the Eldar list was similar to my 2k but with more Storm Guardians over DA versus an IG Hydra/Ven/Chim spam w/Bubble-wrap IG list) and I pointed out why he shouldn’t. Let’s review that.

HF improve your tank’s survivability outside of melta-range considerably (see linked post) at the cost of your shooting/moving or a weapon. Spirit stones makes this a cost of shooting or a weapon. Pretty good, in fact really good for something that can hold objectives (cough Falcon w/DA cough). For something with one main gun (the Prism cannon) this is not good. First off you’re forking out 45 pts per Prism to get this combo to work which has one main gun and it is more likely to lose it with HF. Now whilst the HF may protect the Prisms from dying, to do this for 2 prisms you have essentially paid the cost of a bare 3rd one. Remember, less is more in 40k (less upgrades = more saturation).

Next, your opponent doesn’t care if your Prism is dead or can’t shoot, it’s pretty much the same to him/her. So they have to shoot it next turn, oh well. In the aforementioned IG list it’s not that hard with the amount of firepower they have. Suppression fire FTW. That falcon w/DA though? It needs to die but has such a high survival rate thanks to HF that it nearly becomes useless to try. Shake it so you don’t get hit by 9 S6+ shots a turn but that’s about it unless you can get into melta range you just have to deal with that tank surviving. The prisms are completely different though because the Eldar player is NOT happy when they are not shooting and thus if you do buy HF you are wasting points; same with Stones. Whilst sure the HF may allow you to reposition or move the Prism around rather than it being a wreck but when you start using it to block, etc. you get into melta range and they don’t give a rat’s bottom about HF. I’d rather have more AV12 chassis to move around, shoot and overwhelm my opponent than less which are more survivable because I am more likely to do something with more tanks.

Does this make sense to people who enjoy HF on their Prisms now? Or do I need to elaborate further.

Updates

Well I’ve changed all the colors =D! Too bright? Also added in page breaks to make my page less huge and will be making an effort to shift the pictures to the left. For some odd reason they aren’t working on old posts. Any other formatting changes the masses may or may not like?

Furthermore, we’ve got another new author kids in Roland. I’ve posted his About Me (hopefully GWvsJohn will give me his About me soon) and we may see a post from him soon (I sure hope so!). Roland will be focusing a bit more on fluff compared to myself and GWvsJohn.

Anyways, you can contact Roland via e-mail or leave messages about on the blog. I’m sure you can find him somehow…
Good luck!

LasPlas Razorbacks

I found this gem today on Warseer (odd, I know) by Curly explaining some Razorback intricacies and thought I should post it. Good job Curly.


I’d switch the TL Lascannon Razorbacks for Lascannon/TL Plasma Gun Razorbacks.

The reasons for this abound. They cost the same, so there is no loss there. The TL Lascannon is more accurate than the regular Lascannon, so it loses a smidgen of across the board reach. However, think about this. At long range a Plasma Gun is basically a one-shot autocannon when you aim it at vehicles. At rapid fire, it’s basically a TL Autocannon. A BA Razorback is a fast vehicle.

So when you’re 18 inches away from an enemy, instead of a TL Lascannon, you have a Lascannon and a TL Autocannon. 3 shots instead of 1, all of which kill terminators/marines/MC.

In addition, you can still zoom 12 inches and fire whichever weapon is appropriate. Do you need the strength or the volume?

1 Weapon Destroyed result neuters a TL Lascannon Razorback. Lascannon / TL Plasma Guns are separate weapons, even though they’re on the same turret. So even if you get a weapon destroyed and they take out the Lascannon, you now have a fast TL Plasma Gun platform. Or vice versa.

I can’t say it enough. If you’re going to get a TL Lascannon Razorback, get a Lascannon/TL Plasmagun instead. At least try it.

How to: Blood Angel Predators

I’ve had a lot of requests for 6 pred lists and have alluded to it in a few other lists but here’s a template for you laddies. I’m getting tired of BA stuff btw so requests for pi would be nice =D! Anyways, 6 Preds can be done in a lot of ways but let’s look at what 6 Preds gives us. Remember they are all fast and this makes us want to zoom them up and left and right and loopy de loop for side shots and sheebangs. Problem with this is we open up our own side armor. When you can move laterally for side shots without exposing your side armor, cha-ching but otherwise we don’t want to be advancing these expensive AV13 babies and exposing their weaker armor with protecting their sides. So these guys basically become gunboats who prefer to sit (wow I misspelled that with an h before) at range and poke away at you.


So these preds are essentially gunboats. AC/LC preds are pretty good at transport popping but otherwise firesuppression whilst baals are pretty decent anti-tank for AV10 and suppression for Av11-12 whilst being quite good at anti-infantry. So that seems like a fair firebase so to speak. Whilst there is some discussion about sponsons atm for Baals, in this context where they are used as gunboats from the backfield, they work. This is also where I think hybrid lists come unstuck, AV13 walls are great if they are AV13 all around. When you move 18″ forward you’re opening up your side armor (besides being in melta range :P) and sacrificing shooting. With a pure mech force your melta-advancement is AV11 anyways and now you’ve got suppression fire from backfield.

Now what to add? We know we have decent anti-tank and anti-infantry at our backline but we also know this simply isn’t going to cut it for anti-tank so we obviously want some meltas and blood lances and we’ve got a few options here. We can go for lots of little ASM in RBacks, Libby Dreads, Libbies, Honor Guard in Rhinos/RBacks, Sang Priests, Sternguard, etc. So let’s start breaking down what I’d like (emphasis here, as long as you keep in mind what the Preds are doing you have quite a few options for personalisation, i.e. I know someone likes Libby Dreads [who doesn’t] so combining this post with my Vanilla goes Red mech list would get you a 6 pred list w/libby dreads).

So first off, 6x Preds. We’ll go with AC/LC and Baals w/HB sponsons x3 each. That’s 840 pts. Now we’ve got some options to go with from here. We’re running a mech list here so 2x Libbies would be good w/Blood Lance and Shield. 200 pts and we’ve got just under 1k left to use. Now what I want to do here is get a lot of Rhinos/Rbacks to make mini-sister style Rhino triangles. I want about 6 to do this. So an HG squad w/2x meltagun in a Rhino (we want these in Rhinos for the firepoint) is 185 x2 and we’ve got 1410 points with:

2x Libby w/Blood Lance, Shield

2x HG w/2x meltagun, Rhino

3x Baal Pred

3x AC/LC Pred

Let’s look at some ASM now as we need some Troops. It’s 250 points for a full-sized ASM squad in a Rhino w/PFist and 2x meltaguns so if we want 2 of those we’re going to have to start chopping away at things. Let’s stick with the 5 man theme of the HG remember this is not a combat list. 5x ASM w/meltagun and infernous pistol and do we want them in a RBack or Rhino? It’s 5 pts extra for the TL-Heavy Flamer so let’s go with an RBack. That’s 145 points and we want 6 Rhino chasis. That’s 580 there which puts us right on the money at 1990 w/2 FNP/FC bubbles from the HG and here’s what we have:

HQ –
Librarian w/Blood Lance, Shield

Librarian w/Blood Lance, Shield

Honor Guard w/2x meltagun, Rhino

Honor Guard w/2x meltagun, Rhino

Troops –
ASM x5 w/meltagun, infernous pistol, RBack w/TL-Heavy Flamer

ASM x5 w/meltagun, infernous pistol, RBack w/TL-Heavy Flamer

ASM x5 w/meltagun, infernous pistol, RBack w/TL-Heavy Flamer

ASM x5 w/meltagun, infernous pistol, RBack w/TL-Heavy Flamer

Fast Attack –
Baal Predator w/HB sponsons

Baal Predator w/HB sponsons

Baal Predator w/HB sponsons

Heavy Support –
Predator w/LC sponsons

Predator w/LC sponsons

Predator w/LC sponsons

Total: 1990 pts
Infantry: 32
Tanks: 12

Looks pretty good. You can drop out those HG for Libby Dreads if you wish but I think this is more balanced particularly when you consider how the list runs. Stelek wrote a nice little piece of army list building around BA which is a good read. So this list is not built around combat but due to the joy of HG you still have 2 FNP/FC bubbles. This gives you an advantage over SM and SoB mech where your little 5 men squads can throw out 15 S5 I5 attacks which isn’t too shabby. As stated before your Predators more often than not are going to sit back and shoot away using their AV 13 and each other as protection. Their speed pressures the opponent’s side armor and allows them to push midfield if need be but you don’t want to move them so much that their side armor is vulnerable, too. This gives you the ability against lists with little or minimal shooting ability to hold your Rhino/Rback core back and shoot as the opponent comes to you. Your speed is an advantage over other mech lists except Eldar/DE.

Your core then revolves around 6 Rhino chassis of meltagun units which is 2×3 for tri-rhino funsies. Make sure you use the top hatch from the HG Rhino + unload a ASM squad and keep yourself protected by the tanks and still have the TL-HFs on the RBacks. This takes from Immo spam but BA’s it up. You still have Blood Lance and Shield and the FNP/FC bubbles which lets you get away with the 30 infantry (20 scoring).


So there you have it, a 6 Pred template. There are changes you can make around the core/HQs/Elites and even change up the Preds to AC/HB and Baal w/o sponsons and then spam more meltas but that is a different army dynamic (you care less about moving 12″ with the Baals, etc.). I’d love to see some other lists built around this and see if anyone can make a list which is still good in combat and shooting (to do this I think you’re going to have to go with AC/HB and Baals w/o sponsons and then your shooting isn’t fantastic) but in essence I think it’s going to be one or the other for BA.

GWvsJohn Builds an Army: Thousand Sons

Wow, looks like I really dropped the ball on posting while Kirb-stomp was busy. Sorry guys.

Anyway, let’s finish examining the craptastic, but awesomely fluffy Thousand Sons. How can we make a list??

I think our “standard” squad is best at

6 Thousand Sons, Aspiring Sorceror – Bolt of Change, Rhino, Combi-melta

A cool 268 points. Is it really that bad? I think it compares well to a MM/flamer/combi-melta/rhino tactical squad. Unfortunately for us, that squad is over 50 points cheaper. Still, it’s the best we can do.

Experience has taught me you need about/at least 20 Marines to take objectives at 2k. Thousand Sons aren’t much tougher than normal marines, so I think we need 3 of these squads.

268 – 6 Thousand Sons, Aspiring Sorceror – Bolt of Change, Rhino, Combi-melta
268 – 6 Thousand Sons, Aspiring Sorceror – Bolt of Change, Rhino, Combi-melta
268 – 6 Thousand Sons, Aspiring Sorceror – Bolt of Change, Rhino, Combi-melta
That’s 804 already. Now we need fire support. Like I mentioned before 3×3 oblits is probably mandatory
225 – 3 Obliterators
225 – 3 Obliterators
225 – 3 Obliterators
1475. The points add up fast in CSM don’t they. So we’re short on melta and I think we need some CC bailout for our fearless automatons. I’m going to assume we all know how walker LOS works and add
115 – Dread – Multi-melta, extra armor
115 – Dread – Multi-melta, extra armor
115 – Dread – Multi-melta, extra armor
That’s 1824. We still need an HQ. A prince would be too much of a target. We could go super cheap and just a bare Lord, but that’s not very Tzeentch. Let’s kit out a Sorceror Lord.
180 – Sorceror Lord – Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt of Change, Warptime
He’s not great, but he adds some more CC and anit-tank, which we need. He also puts us 4 over. Let’s drop 1 son and put HF on our dreads. Final list is
180 – Sorceror Lord – Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt of Change, Warptime
120 – Dread – Multi-melta, extra armor, heavy flamer
120 – Dread – Multi-melta, extra armor, heavy flamer
120 – Dread – Multi-melta, extra armor, heavy flamer
268 – 6 Thousand Sons, Aspiring Sorceror – Bolt of Change, Rhino, Combi-melta
268 – 6 Thousand Sons, Aspiring Sorceror – Bolt of Change, Rhino, Combi-melta
245 – 5 Thousand Sons, Aspiring Sorceror – Bolt of Change, Rhino, Combi-melta
225 – 3 Obliterators
225 – 3 Obliterators
225 – 3 Obliterators
Total – 1996

I think this list compares very favorably to Stelek’s original Best-Of Marines list

Unfortunately that list is 1750, but it’s CSM, did you expect any better?

-GWvsJohn

PM in: BA assistance


Hello Kirby,

I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction on what to spend the remaining points on in my 2k list, here is the current setup.

Libby, JP – 125
Honor Guard – JP’s, 2x Powerweps, 1xInfpistol 210


Rhino ASM – 2xmelta, 1xPWep 240
ASMS – 2xmelta 1xPWep 225
ASMS – 2xmelta 1xPFist 235


Baal – TLAC, HB – 145
Baal – TLAC, HB – 145


Pred – ACLC 135
Pred – ACLC 135


SangPriest, JP – 75


This leaves me with a cool 330points to spend, there are so many options left im not too sure what is the best route. Your blog has provided good insight but im still not sure what to shoe horn into the last batch.


(+ im not sure if the Jumpers should be reduced to 5men in Razor backs )


Thanks, OSH.

This was a PM in from Warseer. I replied (didn’t really like my reply actually :P) and I’m just going to post here as well. Well the obvious additions here (for some odd reason my reply tried to make it Rhino based and I think I got the Rhino email confused with this) are 2 more Preds. 250 pts. Then those 2 PWeapons need to become a PFist and we need to fiddle with that squad size. 10 pts Change the PWeapons on HG to LCs and give them 2x meltaguns. 20 pts. Drop the Infpistol too. -15 pts Let’s drop that Rhino ASM squad to 8, upgrade the PWeapon to a PFist, add a infpistol and add a Sanguinary Priest.

HQ –
Libarian w/Jump Pack, Blood Lance & whatever (shield would be nice again)

Honor Guard w/Jump Packs, 3x meltaguns, 3x LC

Elites –
Sanguinary Priest w/Jump Pack

Sanguinary Priest

Troops –
10x ASM w/2x meltagun, Pfist

10x ASM w/2x meltagun, Pfist

8x ASM w/meltagun, Pfist, infernous pistol, Rhino

Fast Attack –
Baal w/HB sponsons

Baal w/HB sponsons

Baal w/HB sponsons

Heavy Support –
Predator w/LC sponsons

Predator w/LC sponsons

Predator w/LC sponsons

Totals: 1994
Infantry: 36
Tanks: 7

So thoughts on that OSH and others?

Email in: Rhino based BA list


Could you please post the best rhino-based BA list you think is
possible? Thanks 🙂

I playtested a list yesterday using assault squads with meltaguns and
powerfists in rhinos supported by deepstriking sanguinary guard with
sanguinary priests. The game was killpoints, against tyranids, 2000
points.


I managed to get the deepstrikers in on the second turn and
support/cover them with the charging rhinos, giving my entire army
that sweet blood chalice action, and thus won the game – but I think a
list based around honor guard or some other way of delivering the
priests would be stronger.

The core is definitely rhino-delivered assault marines that have 2
meltaguns and a sang priest nearby, though.

If you want, I can email you what I come up with using my own models.
I would like to see what you come up with with no real restrictions –
just the strongest army possible based around this core.

As for my models, I own 11 rhinos, 3 ac/hb preds, like 8 dreads of
various sorts – and no razorbacks.(I make a habit of buying used
models on the cheap.) Just never got the urge to spend the $250
necessary to jump on the las\plas razorback bandwagon.

This is from Mat btw. Well let’s see what we can do, shall we? With a Rhino based list we want to get in your face quickly. This means taking advantage of the 18” so Dreads are prob out but Preds are in for support. We’re going to have to have some Razorbacks to run the Priests which is where I think problems will begin to get annoying or perhaps Raiders but Mat has neither of these so let’s see what we can do.

Only ASM squads can have multiple melta weapons under 10 men outside of Sternguard, so ASM x5 w/meltagun and infernus pistol + Rhino will be our base. These cost us 125 a piece and let’s get 2 and then add in 2x Sang Priest. Mat’s got 3x Baal preds so we’ll take them as well dropping us 145 each totalling at 785 with 2 FNP/FC bubbles.

Let’s start dropping in some more meat and grab some tacticals in Rhinos w/meltagun, MM & Rhino for 220 x3 = 440 but these aren’t really taking advantage of the FNP/FC bubbles…back to the beginning I guess. Let’s try Honor Guard…duh Kirby. 115+50+meltaguns and you’ve got your FNP bubble built-in. We’ll take 2x lib and 2x of these to open them up and start off w/2meltaguns each for 570 pts. We‘ve got our FNP bubbles now so let‘s get some max sized ASM to make use of them and we‘ll start with 3. 10xASM w/2xmeltagun, Pfist and Rhino = 235 x3 = 705 and thus 1275 total.

We’ve got our base then with 5 Rhinos but we could still use some heavy hitting. Matt has some Baals but we may want them as fire support though we might prefer AC/LC preds (is Mat up to this J?). The heavy hitters in the BA codex are VV, Sang Guard and Death Company (who can take multiple PWs even though I’m not a fan). Sang Guard can’t take Rhinos so let’s see what we can do remembering we’ve got 5 melta units atm. Let’s add 2 Baal Preds for suppression fire and pop out a VV unit. 3x LCs, glaive sarge, 2x infernous pistols, 2x SS & 2 meltabombs (1 on sarge), Rhino = 260 + the 290 from Baals = 1825 total and not leaving us much to play with. Let’s see if we can double up those VV.

We therefore need to drop the Baals and let’s make them AC/LC Preds (sorry Mat). This saves us 10pts each and we’ll drop the SS’s and an LC from the Vanguard giving us enough room for another VV squad @ 1955.

So atm we’ve got:

2x Lib w/HG w/2x meltagun, Rhino

3x ASM w/2x meltagun, Pfist, Rhino

2x VV w/2x pistol, 2x LC, glaive, Rhino, 2x meltabomb

2x AC/LC Preds

Eh, not really that great I guess. We’ll drop the Preds and add in some saturation. So first a 5x ASM w/Priest, meltagun and pistol + Rhino nets us 175 pts which leaves us with 140 pts. 2 speeders thanks.

So:

HQ –
Librarian w/Blood lance & whatever (shield is nice)

Librarian w/Blood lance & whatever (shield is nice)

Honor Guard w/2x meltagun, Rhino

Honor Guard w/2x meltagun, Rhino

Elites –
Sanguinary Priest

Troops –
5x ASM w/meltagun, infernous pistol, Rhino

10x ASM w/2x meltagun, Pfist, Rhino

10x ASM w/2x meltagun, Pfist, Rhino

10x ASM w/2x meltagun, Pfist, Rhino

Fast Attack –
5x VV w/glaive, 2x LC, 2x mbomb, Rhino

5x VV w/glaive, 2x LC, 2x mbomb, Rhino

Speeder w/MM/HF

Totals: 1990
9 tanks
58 infantry

Again…eh. We can drop those speeders to get another min-sized ASM squad but I think w/o using Razorbacks or Raiders and essentially Rhino spamming… If you want to go hybrid a bit (which I don’t like) or use homers for Vanguard to heroic intervention I think this is your best bet. You’re going to have problems with clumping but you can create 3 FNP armor bubbles (imagine if FNP worked on tanks :P) and you should always be with cover. First turn you zoom up and bang bunch of marines in your face. Use your chasis to make bunkers where guys can hop out and shoot but not be assaulted. Next turn they can assault anything that’s stupid enough to be near and you should be able to make them near with your Rhinos.

Viability? I’d say middle range. I’d much prefer to add in 6x Preds over the Vanguard and Speeders (without crunching numbers I get 2010 pts w/6x Preds, 3x ASM, 2x Liby/HG) so if you’d prefer that Mat. This does however have more of a combat orientation. Let me know and if anyone else has some ideas, please post :P.

Edit: I can’t add so a Speeder has to be dropped and its 1990 pts.

Email in: Space wolves 1k & 1.5k

Thought I’d send you these two lists for you to have a look at. Started using the first list today but as you saw my opponent left.

So first up is the 1.5k list that you helped me with.

 


Wolf Lord – Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Warrior Born, Runic Armour, Wolf Tail Talisman – 215

Rune Priest – Chooser of the Slain – 110

Lone Wolf – Terminator Armour, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield – 85

Wolf Guard – 124
– Combi-Melta, Power Fist, Meltabombs
– Frost Axe, Meltabombs
– Power Weapon, Meltabombs

Grey Hunters – 185
– 8 Hunters, Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Mark of Wulfen
– Rhino

Grey Hunters – 190
– 9 Hunters, Plasmagun, Wolf Standard
– Rhino

Blood Claws – 240
– 15 Claws, 2 Flamers, Power Weapon

Land Raider Crusader – Multi-Melta – 260

Long Fangs – 90
– Pack Leader, 3 Long Fangs, 3 Missile Launchers

Total: 1499 pts
Tanks: 3
Infantry: 41
Scoring Units: 3

Fairly simple, wolf guard are equipped as they are for fluff standards. PFist WG goes with the first GH squad w/meltaguns, as does the Lord. Frost WG goes with the Plasma GH squad, and third WG w/PW goes with the BCs in the Raider. Rune Priest will join the Fangs and sometimes disconnect to get better views on different targets. Tanks will trundle forward with the Lone Wolf in tow when on the offensive, and will otherwise sit back and wait for the counter charge if on the defensive.

The next list is pretty much the first one cut down a bit.

Rune Priest – 100

Wolf Lord – Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Warrior Born, Runic Armour, Wolf Tooth Necklace – 215

Grey Hunters – 185
– 9 Hunters, Meltagun, Wolf Standard
– Rhino

Blood Claws – 240
– 15 Claws, 2 Flamers, Power Weapon

Land Raider Crusader – Multi-Melta – 260

Total: 1000 pts
Tanks: 2
Infantry: 26
Scoring Units: 2

Two tanks. Rune Priest will sit in the rhino with the Grey Hunters, firing away with his Living Lightning, while the Wolf Lord chills with the Blood Claws on the way to what would most definitely be a very bloody assault. A good amount of anti armour and melta fire would stuff this list up, but if it makes it through, there will be hell to pay.

The Wolf’s Lunch

Well as I said before the 1.5k list is okay the problem being the one LRC sticks out and you’ve only got 3 vehicles all up. If you start versusing lists that put a lot of firepower down T1 or can block you’re in for a bit of trouble. As it stands you’re all about close combat without much suppression fire. Your 2k variation (which you didn’t send) at least has the 2 ML LF squads which allows you to shoot down field somewhat. The same things stand with your 1k list.

I think if you want to make the list more tournament ready at 1500 you need some more firepower. If you want for a more fluffy yet still able to play list what you have is fine though maybe drop the LW for more LFs. Make sure with your BCs you multi-charge otherwise all those A are wasted :P.

Busy Kirby


I’ve got a few e-mails to reply to and need to think up some more stuff to write for Armies in 5th: BA and have some more basic ones in the works but for the moment, nothing! I’m working on finishing all my assignments currently but will be posting some more things most likely on Wednesday Aussie time. So if you have any questions or things you’d like to see me post, get them in now. Hopefully GWvsJohn can post something to keep the blog rolling whilst I polish up my assignments…

Also, re-reading the Wheel of Time again never helps with my time management skills! I’ve also got some Sang Guard/Death Company being delivered soon so I can start working on my Jumper conversions (i.e. magnets) as well as two minis entered into a painting comp which I’ll start working on in two weeks or so when I’ve finished the next series of assignments.