Email in: Unsucking Chaos? 2000 pts

Got a couple of emails to get through then on to the next Ork article (and some NBA talk :P).

From MagicJuggler…

Man, Chaos has too many issues. Lack of anti-mech, Oblits only being able to threaten one unit at a time/being fragile, Plague Marines being costly while lacking ranged firepower. Etc, etc.

So I’m trying to build a list that isn’t too much of a pushover. Thoughts?

HQ:
Lash Sorcerer
Lash Sorcerer
Total points: 250

Elites
3 Terminators: 2 have Combi-Meltas, one has a Reaper Autocannon
-Land Raider with Havoc Launcher
3 Terminators: 2 have Combi-Meltas, one has a Reaper Autocannon
-Land Raider with Havoc Launcher
Total points: 720

Troops:
5 Noise Marines: One has a Blast Master
-Rhino with Havoc Launcher and Daemonic Possession
5 Noise Marines: One has a Blast Master
-Rhino with Havoc Launcher and Daemonic Possession
5 Noise Marines: One has a Blast Master
-Rhino with Havoc Launcher

Total points: 610

Heavy Support:
Vindicator with Havoc Launcher
Vindicator with Havoc Launcher
Vindicator with Havoc Launcher

Total points: 420

For 2500 points, add another identical Terminator unit, and another Havoc/Noise Marine Rhino without Possession. Likewise, take away one of each for 1500.

Setup: Everything is mounted! The Lash Sorcerers go with the Noise Marines in Possessed Rhinos. For defensive games, the Land Raiders stay in front to provide cover to everything else. For offensive games, they serve as a pillbox and the Vindicators train. The Terminators are basically autocannons/sacrificial melta to deal with Land Raider/Battlewagon Rushes. The Havocs are on the Vindicators as a backup weapon in case of Weapon Destroyed, and to provide some longer ranged shooting if nothing good is in range. The Lash Sorcerers are in the Possessed Rhinos of course.

Concerns: Alphastrike lists, mechdar, mech guard, any Tau, etc.

Thoughts?

Honestly, not liking. Vindicators and LRs don’t mix well, even if the LRs are being used as fire support rather than bumrushing & dropping something off. I’ve always liked Rhinos w/Havoc Launchers and think a decent list can be made out of spamming those flamers and meltas but you essentially become a 12″ army. With this army you’re going to have problems with mech. S10 ord is great but hits ~40% of the time on a Rhino sized chasis. Otherwise a couple blastmasters, 4 TL LCs and that’s about it in the ranged department.

With this list I think you can roll over hordes and you’re snug up in your Rhinos/Raiders for mech defense but against a balanced IG/Tau/SM/Tyranid list I can’t see this working. If you want to stick with the havoc launcher idea though I’ll see if I can work something out.

Opinions anyone else? Anything salvagable here? Maybe drop the Raiders for more Termicide units (ick) and see what other anti-tank we can plop in? The main problem with CSM for me is lack of fast MM or even fast melta. Bikes/Raptors can kinda do it but nothing like SM bikes or Speeders.

Mutumbo recieves Laureus Award

For those of you who follow the NBA with any sort of decency you will know of Dikembe Mutumbo and what he’s done in his NBA career and how he’s applied himself outside of the game. I think he deserves a shout out here for recieving the Laureus Sport for Good Award (another humanitarian award in a long list of awards). Last year in the playoffs he injured his foot in the first round against the Blazers and decided to retire. It was a quiet finish to a career that really was overlooked by many and his finger wag will be missed.

Finger wag
Press Release

Email in: Smurfy’s Biker Hybrid

2000 Pts – Space Marines Roster – Let’s Get Dangerous

HQ: Master of the Forge (1#, 100 Pts)
1 Master of the Forge @ 100 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Artificer Armour; Servo Harness; Bolt Pistol
1 Servo Harness @ [0] Pts

HQ: Space Marine Captain (1#, 170 Pts)
1 Space Marine Captain @ 170 Pts
…in Power Armour
1 …in Power Armour @ [170] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Iron Halo; Power Armour; Melta Bombs; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol; Relic Blade (x1)
1 Space Marine Bike @ [0] Pts

Elite: Dreadnought (1#, 105 Pts)
1 Dreadnought @ 105 Pts
Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Dreadnought CCW; Multi-Melta; Storm Bolter

Elite: Dreadnought (1#, 105 Pts)
1 Dreadnought [OM] @ 105 Pts
Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Dreadnought CCW; Multi-Melta; Storm Bolter

Elite: Dreadnought (1#, 105 Pts)
1 Dreadnought [OM] @ 105 Pts
Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Dreadnought CCW; Multi-Melta; Storm Bolter

Troops: Space Marine Bike Squad (9#, 300 Pts)
7 Space Marine Bike Squad @ 300 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol (x5); Meltagun (x2); Attack Bike
1 Attack Bike @ [50] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Multi-Melta
1 Sergeant @ [55] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Power Weapon

Troops: Space Marine Bike Squad (9#, 300 Pts)
7 Space Marine Bike Squad @ 300 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol (x5); Meltagun (x2); Attack Bike
1 Attack Bike @ [50] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Multi-Melta
1 Sergeant @ [55] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Power Weapon

Troops: Space Marine Bike Squad (9#, 300 Pts)
7 Space Marine Bike Squad @ 300 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol (x5); Meltagun (x2); Attack Bike
1 Attack Bike @ [50] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Multi-Melta
1 Sergeant @ [55] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Power Weapon

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 70 Pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 Pts
Multi-Melta (x1); Heavy Flamer (x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 70 Pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 Pts
Multi-Melta (x1); Heavy Flamer (x1)

Heavy Support: Dreadnought (1#, 125 Pts)
1 Dreadnought @ 125 Pts
Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Autocannon; Twin Linked Autocannon

Heavy Support: Dreadnought (1#, 125 Pts)
1 Dreadnought @ 125 Pts
Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Autocannon; Twin Linked Autocannon

Heavy Support: Dreadnought (1#, 125 Pts)
1 Dreadnought @ 125 Pts
Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Autocannon; Twin Linked Autocannon

Total Roster Cost: 2000

Thoughts?

So this is:
Captain w/Bike, Relic Blade, Mbombs
MotF

3x Full bike squads w/2mguns, pweapon + MM AB

2x MM/HF Speeders

3x MM Dredas

3x TLAC Dreads

So first off get rid of the powerweapons. No need with combat tactics and meh anyways. PFists on full bike squads I can get away with but not really on the powerweapons. However this list does lack in hard hitting in close combat unlike a full bike spam but the Dreads are there if not as quick.

So that frees up 45 (50 if you include mbombs) points to play with. MotF needs a bike otherwise he’s just standing around. I’d like to give him a conversion beamer but that means dropping an MM AB to a HB AB which I’m not a fan of. He can become extra wounds and some power weapon attacks in combat. Let’s give a combi-flamer to a sarge with that final 10 pts as you recall how shit annoying guants can be w/FNP and GtG!

I think that’s a more polished list and is one of your better Biker/Dread lists of late though I am still quite fond of the mass TLAC w/bikes and the MotF in a Rhino w/CB shooting out (my idea :P).

Thoughts everyone else?

Email in: 2k Marines

Hey Kirby,

Trying to “perfect” my favorite list the double Raider marine list.
Here’s what I have right now.

Terminator Librarian
10 TH/SS Terminators
2 Rifleman Dreads
2 flamer/MM/Rhino Tac squads
5 sniper scouts
3 MM/HF Speeders
2 Redeemers EA MM

Should be 2000 on the nose.

A note: I insist on the Terminator Libby because I love the model.

Thoughts on how to improve it? I have a few ideas, but I want to hear
your thoughts first.

-GWvsJohn

That’s pretty close to what I offer up to people for Dual Raiders w/o the EA and scouts to give 130 pts (but you have termie armor!) of playing around. I would however change up a Redeemer into a Crusader. Libby have Vortex and Nullzone? You could drop the scouts and make the 3 MM/HF speeders into Typhoons.

Really whatever you change outside of the Dreads/Tacs/Raiders/Termies isn’t going to make the list bad persay, just comes down to flavoring. As I mentioned the only real change I would suggest would be at least one crusader and if you can get away with the Libby Termie model as a plain old libby that’d save you 25 pts, too.

Anyone else have any thoughts for GWvsJohn? I’ve also got another email in from GWvsJohn in relation to an Ork army and my recent articles but won’t post that until all of my articles have been posted! He jumped the gun the silly guy :P.

Maximise your strengths…

I’m watching a game right now. It’s BA versus Vulkan Pods. The pod list is pretty decent (for those of you who know me, I don’t like Pod lists in the Vanilla SM dex. Use the BT pods!) and the BA list has 3 melta weapons between it and a few PFists. i.e. not alot of anti-tank. The Vulkan list is going to win but has given the BA list every opportunity to win and based on tactical choices the BA player deserves to win. When you use a list that trickles in DON’T SPREAD OUT. What the hell is the point of using an army that can alpha strike if you spread it out? Now the Vulkan player’s initial Drop sent 5 dreads all over the place to try and pop as many tanks as possible. Fittingly he only dropped one and essentially lost 2 dreads due to his stupidity. The BA player had already spread out and playing into his hands was just stupid. Whilst the Vulkan player’s later drops with his tacticals was able to secure his hold in midfield, against a good list he’d of been screwed.

So this brings me to a quick point I’m going to make now (I’m thinking of writing some more articles in relation to 5th edition such as designing army lists, target prioity, etc. and this may be covered more there), play to your army’s strengths and minimise your weaknesses. This may seem obvious but I see it done the wrong way all the time. Tau are great at shooting. So don’t make them close combat or close shooting orientated (nice article here by Dethtron). A pod list shouldn’t spread out. Most lists shouldn’t spread out but particularly one that trickles in (Daemons also come to mind). It just boggles my mind how people can take semi-decent or decent lists off the internet (or hell even make a decent list) but then screw up tactics in such basic ways.

Btw kaney, ya I’m talking to you! Everytime you play Pods you spread it out! Stop it! Your initial drop should 99% of the time be localised, particularly against a list with minimal anti-tank.

Armies in 5th: Orks Part 3: Troops & Battlewagons

Well I had this all written out and hadn’t noticed the uni network had crashed. Tried to post and poof! goes hours and hours and hours… of work. So anyways first off I’ve made a new link in the top left which will contain all my armies in 5th articles so they are easier to find.

Anywho, since my last article on Orks they have been given a boost through Deff Rollas being FAQ’d to damage tanks during a ram. This isn’t a fix. Orks are not now competitive. They still rely on their Elite and FA slots for some kind of semi-decent anti-mech. However, this does give the Ork army some reliable ability to damage AV14 (nothing likes D6 S10 hits) but with AV12 side armor and a narrow front facing they need the hard case upgrade. Without it every pen has a 5/6 chance of stopping it from moving and the Ork player wants them moving. A 1/6 chance isn’t much but we’ll take it even at 15pts (it especially makes glancings less eepy!). Now ya this means you can’t assault out of it. Big friggin woop. You don’t want Boyz in this tank. Why? It becomes a huge target. Something that is transporting 20 guys into your lines, is scoring by just sitting around, is a tank and has D6 S10 attacks on the tank shcok is a big target. Drop the 20 boyz and it isn’t so much. Put in a small crack unit like Nobz w/combis or Gretchin to make it scoring (like DAVU for Eldar) and the opponent has a choice to make between the less valuable but dangerous BW, valuable but not dangerous Troops (we’ll go into that next) or the really dangerous Lootas/Buggies. That is the making of a good list, when the same weapons of your opponent have multiple targets. Unless you’re facing a list which is spamming small units which can contain guns (see RBack spam) you’ll overload those guns with targets (hmm perhaps I should do an article just on that…).

So now that we have discussed the role of the BW w/Deff Rolla as a support unit, we still need the core of the Orky army. These are the Troops in 40k. Without FoC changes the Troops for Orks are Gretchin and Boyz. We’ve already discussed using Gretchin as an “upgrade” for Battlewagons as it forces your opponent to pop a tank (no open-topped makes this harder) to stop the Troops being mobile and the Deff Rolla coming at them. As a stand alone unit though, meh. What about Ork Boyz? Eh okay again. For 6 pts they aren’t too bad really but we have a problem. Their transport sucks ass. There is no debate. Add in that it takes Orks below a critical mass level (they rely on number of A which Trukks don’t give them) and it seems they are really only viable in BWs or on foot. On foot is out, 5th edition is far too mobile and your units on foot who want to assault aren’t going to be happy campers. Now battlewagons are viable but as I mentioned previously making it into such a big target isn’t always a wise idea. So let’s see what FoC changes we can fiddle with to get some more suitable Troops.

The most obvious is the Warboss which makes up to one Nobs a Troop choice (therefore a max of two). You could of course go the silly route with Bikers but…ya. Too expensive and your army as a cohesive whole starts to suffer. Tiny units could be viable but are essentially like Vanguard, they get expensive fast. The Nobs then suffer from the same problem the Boyz do (other than weight of attacks). Put them in a Trukk and they are likely to get shot up T1 and then could end up who knows where. Put them in a BW and paint a big red target on the side AV12 armor. Put them on foot and watch them get ignored then alpha striked by a more mobile army. Warbosses, as mentioned by Chumbalaya, can be decent anti-tank on a bike so it’s a potential consideration as a decent HQ. The other option is Big Meks. Ork players seem to swear by KFF and it certainly helps the Ork survivability and tactical flexibility. The problem is this is a point spell (i.e. an ability radiating out for a specific point) and the Orks need it as a crux which means 2 is far, far better than 1 in case one gets neutralised in some way. Big Meks also allow up to one Deff Dread to be counted as a Troop choice (so again a total of 2). Sounds good on paper much like the Tervigons in a Tyranid list but unfortunately you can’t max out the Dreads, nor do they offer great midfield support like a Tervigon does. They also require the KFF to be survivable, don’t offer much ranged support and are therefore meltabait and are not great at advancing and laying down firepower (unlike say a SM MM Dread). So whilst certainly adding powerful CC units as Troops seems like a good idea, we still haven’t solved our main troop problem (2 Troops isn’t going to cut it) and our main Troops (Boyz and Gretchin) have serious drawbacks in 5th edition. So what other options do we have?

Wazdakka. Wtf right? Credit to Stelek here as I never knew Bikers could count as troops with him simply because I didn’t have his rules memorised. Who the hell sees Wazdakka? But what he does is make Ork Bikers count as Troops. This is a full FoC replacement like Logan & Wolfguard. Yaya Bikers aren’t that great and taking Wazdakka limits your ability to double up the Warboss or Big Mek if you so choose (for those S10 attacks or KFF) but they give you troops which are:
a) mobile
b) somewhat resiliant with a T4(5), 4+ and perma cover save
c) decent anti-infantry w/TL S5
This is something no other Ork troop (outside of Nob Bikers but they’ve been discussed and cannot be used en-masse) can provide. The opportunity cost of such is as previously mentioned the single HQ choice in Warboss or Big Mek if so chosen. However, if a Warboss on abike is taken the Warbikers can provide him an escort unit and potentially we could have a small Nob Biker squad…hmmm

So whilst BWs add another anti-mech element to the army, loading them up with valuable units makes them a huge target (i.e. full sized Boyz or Nobs) but small units of Nobs or min-sized Gretchin can make them more valuable to the Ork player whilst not increasing their battlefield value so much they become priority targets for your opponent. They still suffer from the narrow front facing and really require the hard case upgrade but at least give the Ork army ability to damage AV14 reliably. By taking up so many choices to just be able to deal with anti-mech (Elites/FA) it’s hard to pick a good troop choice that compliments the army which doesn’t suck (i.e. Trukks or on foot). Whilst Boyz can go into Battlewagons this draws to them a lot of attention and whilst Big Meks and Warbosses can promote up to 2 Nobs or Dreads to Troops, some Boys or Gretchin have to be used somewhere. Here Wazdakka comes in and is able to provide a decent Troop choice that isn’t super scary (so isn’t a high priority target) that can keep up with a mobile force and still does some damage.

Next up I’ll look at the rest of the Heavy Support choices then will go onto other units and why they don’t see use.

Timeout!

Sorry for the lack of general good posts lately, uni has started up again so will be posting less. I will continue the Ork series don’t worry but they are on hold for the moment. Add in the lack of stupendous stupidity lately (that I’ve seen ^^) means I can’t drop a quick post on pointing out the blinding obvious.

I will mention one thing about the upcoming BA codex. Many of you will have seen the rumors or leaked codex and it certainly seems there will be a transport which jump packs can assault out of. Wild[TO] thinks this isthe end of Tau because he still doesn’t understand the significance of Kroot screens. I think this transport will become exactly like the Vendetta in practical use. You will see armies spamming them out the wazoo and they will be a very one dimensional army (Air-Cav) which can be easily countered but by adding a couple to your army you’re demanding your opponent defend against them or suffer the consequences. For armies such as Tau and IG which regularly take bubble-wrap units this won’t be such a big deal but for other armies this becomes an important distinction to be made.

Anywho I’ll post something of more substance ASAP.

2 guants painted total.

Hive Fleet…something?

Here’s a really quickly painted Termaguant for color scheme purposes. Thoughts? Took me about 30 minutes so isn’t great but is a good sign for mass painting them…

No idea on name yet since Moloch got nicked by GW *shakes fist*.



Email in: Competitive DH list!

Sup Will,

I challenge you to make the most competitive army you can with DH and post it on your log πŸ™‚ I suppose you could use IG platoons too but whatever you want… Maybe make two lists, one without allies and one with…

Cheers,
Vince

People put in the points value please!

This is what I came up with for pure DH. I think it’s okay with 34 S5/6 shots, 10 melta weapons, 4 lascannons, and some heavy flamers & S4 spattered about. Let’s see what people think.

HQ –
Inquisitor Lord w/Psycannon, Psychic Hood
Servitor w/Heavy Bolter, 3x mystics
Chimera w/Multi-laser, Heavy Bolter, Smoke Launchers

Elites –
Inquisitor
2x Servitors w/MM
Chimera w/Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer

Inquisitor
2x Servitors w/MM
Chimera w/Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer

Troops –
Grey Knights x4 w/psycannon
Justicar

Grey Knights x4 w/psycannon
Justicar

Imperial Storm Troopers x5 w/2x meltaguns
Rhino w/smoke launchers

Imperial Storm Troopers x5 w/2x meltaguns
Rhino w/smoke launchers

Imperial Storm Troopers x5 w/2x meltaguns

Heavy Support –
Land Raider Crusader w/smoke launchers

Land Raider

Land Raider

Totals: 2000 pts
35 infantry
8 vehicles

GK in LRs, IST w/o Rhino in LRC. Move Rhinos/LRC up in the front first/2nd turn to claim midfield with everything else behind it. Set up the MM chimeras behind the LRC and move the LRs out to the side so it becomes like a Roman legion (i.e. the MMs can shoot between the Raiders but are still getting cover. Rhinos park in front of Raiders for cover unless they need to move further up and slow something down with mguns. Inq Lord Chimera cna flit in between Raiders or out to side as needed.

I don’t think it’s a bad list per-say. It’s taking advantage of 5th edition as much as possible but with huge price tags on everything and not having an speedy fast attack available you just don’t pack as big a punch. Assuming GW scales down like it did with everything else you could expect to see this in a 1500/1750 game and it wouldn’t feel out of place (though 3 LRs would @ 1500 :P). You just need to maximise your target priority, gain cover as much as possible and don’t press too far but don’t be too passive; capiche?

Against speedy ranged lists like Eldar and DE or Tau though you are going to have a hard time getting across the board. How’s that Vince?

P.S. I hate you.

BoLS ****s up again

I really hate to do it but I’m going to quote a few things from their most recent “tactica.”

I see the pointy eared space elves getting a lot of negative press these days. The general consensus on the net is that the Eldar are not the heavy hitters that they once were and that they are now relegated to playing defensively for objective grabs and pulling tricks out of their hat to have any hope of winning.

The press is wrong. Eldar are good when you play to win and not contest.

Falcons are no longer unstoppable juggernauts and Harlequins, while still amazing assault units, are no longer able to rip through an army like a buzz saw.

Falcons are more survivable in 5th against non-AP1 weapons, they just can’t move 12″ and fire everything any more *tear.*

If you decide to go foot Eldar which is a very potent option in 5th, your best bet is to go with Guardians, Dire Avengers and Rangers as your troops choices.

Let’s repeat that.

If you decide to go foot Eldar which is a very potent option in 5th, your best bet is to go with Guardians, Dire Avengers and Rangers as your troops choices.

Eldar on foot are not good. Foot is not good unless you have a codex that can pull it off in 5th (Tyranids or SW) who are a) fast b) can shoot down tanks c) tough. Eldar on foot are not fast, can barely shoot down tanks and are certainly not tough.

A foot Eldar list needs two things to really be viable: the Avatar and a Farseer (Eldrad is really the clear choice here).

Two things. One be called mech. Two mech up.

When combined with the guardians, this means you can put out 120 Shuriken Catapult rounds a turn, on the move. What this means is that ANY infantry that comes with 18” of you is going to be gutted.

But what happens when my TANKS come close to you? Eh *nudge nudge*?

So, now you have a solid core of 6 troops choices (don’t see that too often with Eldar!) to make sure that you have the bodies to take objectives, and the firepower to waste infantry, plus the entire thing is mobile. The HQ choices multiply the effectiveness of these units and provide some counter assault punch. So what is the list lacking now? Anti tank/monstrous creature firepower.

Lacking? Uh dignity. Particularly me because it’s almost like you push a little button inside me that says Rage! It’s angry marines all over again πŸ™

You have several options to fill this role, but I go with Wraithlords because they are so hard to kill.

Oh no says IG/SM/Tau, not 3 T8 W3 creatures w 2 S8 weapons. What am I going to do? Kill them. And if I cbf’d, oh I sure hope my mech wall can survive 6 S8 shots.

Throw a Wraithlord into a 30 boy Ork Mob after you have Mind Warred the Nob and laugh as that unit does NOTHING for the rest of the game.

Or if you played a good army you could avoid it, template it, kill it, etc. I thought your army had awesome anti-infantry? Plus that WL has 2 flamers. seriously.

Blablabla this is already turning into too long of a post…

In a year of running my foot Eldar list as my primary army I have not yet lost a single game, and I play at least once a week against a very wide variety of armies and players who are very skilled, and play competitively.

Bullshit. I’ll take 1000pts of something and kick your ass. Come to Australia. No one, NO ONE, not even Sun Tzu himself could play 40k regularly against good opponents and lists and win all the time. You’re either playing shit people (likely), shit lists (likely) or lying (likely). Hell you could be cheating/using rigged dice, too! Watch this. In 22 years of life I’ve won 2 billion Fantasy games and never lost any. No one is going to come out and dispute this because I’ve never lost a fantasy game πŸ˜› (nor have I played any). Now go matchup against a real list and a real player. Videotape it. Post it online. Prove us wrong.

By the by, he has one real anti-tank unit. 7 dragons. On foot.

Again I’m laying down the guantlet. Play someone who has some skill with a list who has some merit. Videotape it. Prove your worth. Even better come down here and prove it to me in person.