Kirby needs your help!

Well as GWvsJohn likes to think, he is now my official blog muse and annoyingly I have to give him the musation (new word!) for my Tryanid army. I’ve got a bunch of old 2nd and 3rd edition models and after making a 2k list based around the Swarmlord for GWvsJohn I rather liked it and checked out what models I have.

From the list made here all I need is 3 TMCs (assuming I can convert a 3rd ed carnifex into a tyrannofex) and 6 Hive Guard + a few more guants incase I get insane rolls for Tervigons (I’ve got 40 Termaguants + around 16-20 Hormaguants/Devguants).

A bit of converting work will need to be done to make some Boneswords for some of the Warriors, Swarmlord and Tyrant Guard but only having to buy a couple new models appeals to me. So, for a new army I want a new paint scheme and this is where you lot come in.

Make me a color scheme! Pronto.

My marines are light blue, Eldar brown and Tau purple so something different would be nice and I’d also like to be able to quickly paint the Guants/Hive Guard/Warriors and spend some time getting a really nice touch on the MCs.

So send me your ideas and pictures (either through comments, e-mail or chat) and let’s see if we can get Kirby another functional 5th edition army. I’m off to e-bay :P.

Email in: GWvsJohn’s 2k Tyranids

I tried it today. It kills like crazy, but I’m afraid its too slow to
get across the board.

280 Swarmlord
225 3 Tyrant Guard – Bonesword

95 Tyranid Prime – Lash Whip, Bone Sword, Rending Claws
180 3 Zoanthropes

150 3 Hive Guard

140 Deathleaper

50 10 Termagants
200 Tervigon – Onslaught, Catalyst, Toxin Sacs, Cluster Spines

150 4 Warriors – Deathspitter, Rending Claws

265 Tyrannofex – Rupture Cannon
265 Tyrannofex – Rupture Cannon


Okay, first stuff on Tyranids :p. I’ll do this a bit differently from the last list critique because I think the list is all over the place :P. John you bad boy.

Let’s look at it from an opponent’s perspective. I think the Swamrlord and Tyrant guard are rightfully scary and stand out. The Tervigon isn’t boosting a bunch of crap in midfield so it can wait. The TYrannos are tough to take down assuming they are in cover so I’m going to leave them for now and suffer 4 S10 BS3 shots a turn especially since you can only onslaught one. The Warriors like the Tervigon can wait as there is only one squad of them and your Elites are all over the place. So, I’m going to shoot the hell out of your Hive Guard which can shoot me early and otherwise everything wants to go into the CC unit of death (i.e. Swarmlord). Then I can start to work on the Tervigon/Warriors/Zoans.

I think to make the Swarmlord work you need a really solid midfield list around him which can provide covering fire as he advances. I think Deathleaper is minorly less needed with the Swamrlord too but he is pretty awesome so I’d go either 3×2 Hive Guard or 2×3. Then I think drop the Prime and try and squeeze in 2 termaguns/tervigon squads + 2x Warrior squads. But that’s prob way over the points limit so the Tryannos might have to be dropped…

What do you think of those ideas? Then we can try and build a list around the Swarmlord.

Armies in 5th: Orks Part 2: Anti-armor

So back to the Orks in 5th edition. We’ve covered their general fail in meching up (BWs can be done but we’ll cover that later) so let’s look more closely at their ability to counter mech.

On the whole Orks don’t like Mech. They have good weight of fire to counter their crrappy BS and medium strength weapons but the higher the strength the less shots they get (i.e. from a 3 shot S5 big shoota to a 1 shot S8 rokkit). So to maximise Orky chances of landing hits we either needs lots of medium strength shots or twin-linking the higher strength shots as much as possible (whilst having as many of them as possible, too).

Now where can we get these kind of guns? Lootas is the first and obvious choice (it’s like I was leading up to this right?). 1-3 autocannon shots per turn per Loota for a measly 15 pts? Done! They are BS2? Still done! Here’s how many hits on average you’re going to get with 1/2/3 shots. 5/10/15. That’s pretty damn good and you have a huge standard deviation range in your favor against those pesky AV10-11 units which the Lootas should be focusing on. This high rate of fire can also be very effective as anti-infantry/MC once the light mech has fallen. What Lootas don’t like? Lots of targets overwhelms even 3 units of Lootas. Unable to split their fire makes Lootas unhappy but you get what you are given. And anything hitting the AV12 range, AV13 and 14? forget it. At least with AV12 Lootas have enough shots to hopefully get a pen and have it not covered but again standard deviations are the Ork’s friend. Notice how we’ve already used the word hopefully?

So we’ve already filled 3 elite slots to take out light armor and they do a credible job of it. Cover obviously reduces their effectiveness and they need enough shots to get through cover to reliably take down tanks due to no AP1 and we mentioned Lootas don’t like the higher AVs. So onto TL-Rokkits. Where can we get these moderately happy S8 weapons and twin-link them? Your fast attack. Buggies and Deffkoptas. Now what’s super important about these? They are the only fast unit which can bring high strength weaponry reliably. What’s this mean? Side armor shots. Like the Piranha in the Tau army the Buggies and Deffkoptas add a different dimension to the Ork codex and allow them more tactical options when taken. Whilst their points seem a bit inflated the flexibility they add to an Ork army is almost essential. The problem? Like Vypers, Buggies are very, very weak. Open-topped and in squadrons is not good which is why taking a squadron or two (or three) of Deffkoptas is a good choice. Problem again is they are more expensive and vulnerable to instant death but they make up for it with the lovely Scout move they have. So this adds a bit of mobile firepower to the Ork army with a mildly higher strength than Lootas but still has trouble with AV13/14. Fast Attack therefore becomes a trade-off between Koptas and Buggies which means to reliably threaten AV10-12 we’ve already locked up 6 FoC slots and the 3 Fast Attack choices aren’t too stellar at anti-infantry.

So how can we reliably crack AV13/14? It seems we must delve into close combat where Orks are “great.” This means power klaws which Ork players think are their saviour. Nope. They allow units with them to threaten tanks, not reliably hurt them. With the new rules for vehicles in close combat moving and the damage charts are their biggest defenses, not armor value (most tanks are AV10 in the rear). This means weight of attacks is very important. PKs generally swing at a max of 4 attacks which means a minimal Odds Ratio to actually land a hit. However, outside of Zzzap guns, this is the only way Orks can threaten all around AV14 or even make heavy front and side armor tanks like Russes afraid.

So the Orks initial and most reliably anti-tank comes from Lootas (spam S7 shots) and TL-rokkits (field as many as you can and go for side armor with a ~55% hit rate). PKs are a nice little addition but because the initial Ork anti-tank isn’t stellar Ork players will often find themselves hoping their PKs do something against armor. Hoping is never a good strategy. This is one of the inherent weaknesses of the Ork codex, they really have to do out of their way to deal with Mech.

Next up I’ll look at the Ork core in what should be taken as their “hitting” power in Troops. Remember to have some decent and reliable anti-tank we’ve already used all Elite and Fast Attack choices.

Armies in 5th: Tau Part 6: Summary

Sorry for the hiatus, life calls on the weekends generally for me :O.
Well I’ve had some pretty good feedback on these articles so thanks to everyone who posted a comment, sent e-mails, told me online in person or simply ignored me for the positive feedback. Glad I can be of some help.
So to wrap up the Tau series. We’ve looked at all the units that are your best investment in points within the Tau codex. They either do something nothing else in the army can (Piranhas) or do it a premium points cost (Crisis suits). The units we haven’t looked in depth at don’t do enough for what you are paying for them, are too singular in their purpose (like Fire warriors, TL-MP suits, etc. [though we looked at these]) or something else in the codex does it better at a better points ratio (i.e. Stealth suits compared to Crisis suits).

Some of these units are more usable than others (such as the FW and TL-MP suits we touched on) but the list you get is a lot less flexible and units have a lot more defined roles. Remember an army with units A,B,C to take out infantry and D,E,F for anti-tank is worse than an army with L,M,N,O all capable of both. As a general you are less confined in your choices and your battle plan is a lot more flexible.

Whilst the Tau army book has limited choices in what you can take (even if you include TL-MPs and FW) the ability for a Tau army to keep firing through it’s defensive screens, delay super units and deny cover makes it one of the best armies in the game. The main weakness is it’s obvious reliance on shooting (wow! :O). A poor showing in the early rounds of shooting against lists like Eldar and IG can spell doom for Tau as these armies are able to break through the Tau’s army lines. This needs to be kept in mind when making your army list and playing these armies. So let’s look at my army list:

HQ –
Shas’el w/TL’d Missile Pod, Target-lock

Elites –
Crisis x3 w/Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker

Crisis x3 w/Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker

Crisis x3 w/Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker

Troops –
Fire Warriors x6

Kroot x10

Kroot x10
Hounds x7

Fast Attack –
Pathfinders x8
Devilfish w/SMS, Multi-tracker, Disruption Pods, Targeting Array

Piranhas x2 w/Fusion Blasters, Targeting Array, 1 Disruption Pod

Piranhas x2 w/Fusion Blasters, Targeting Array, 1 Disruption Pod

Heavy Support –
Broadsides x3 w/Advanced Stablisation System, Team Leader w/hard-wired Drone controller, 2 shield drones & hard-wired TL

Hammerhead w/Railgun, SMS, Multi-tracker, Disruption Pod

Hammerhead w/Railgun, SMS, Multi-tracker, Disruption Pod

Total: 1999
13 suits (+2 drones)
41 infantry
7 tanks

This is a bit different from what I commonly see (2 full 17 Kroot squads, only 2 Broadsides and a PR/MP HQ) but I’ve been using this list lately for the extra broadside (I think it’s worth the less Hounds and less efficient HQ). You can obviously fiddle here and there to make things different and I will often run the setup I just spoke of amongst others.

So the analysis;

This list has one clear mono-role unit in the broadsides (+ the HQ & FWs but they are mandatory choices and don’t impact the list too significantly). It’s task is anti-tank and really only has minimal anti-infantry through SMS. ASS is a must to try and stay as mobile as possible and hopefully get some shots off in DoW. Every other unit runs as a dual purpose unit.

Kroot -> defense and anti-infantry
Piranha -> defense and anti-tank
Suits -> anti-infantry and anti-light tank
Devilfish -> defense, anti-infantry and scoring APC
Hammerheads -> anti-infantry and anti-tank

With this list it becomes a lot clearer in why Broadsides are more popular in 5th and a “must have” in your 5th edition army. Every unit that is anti-tank is better at anti-infantry or defense. Mech generally does not scare Tau (except during poor T1/T2 shooting days) but imagine a list without those 2-3 Broadsides. Suddenly mech becomes a lot more potent against Tau. Whilst a mono-style unit like Broadsides runs against the trend of 5th edition 40k and the way balanced armies work, they are so good at what they do + have the ability to split fire and the staying power of W2/T4/2+ (with 4+ cover) to be worth it.

Lists like these therefore take advantage of what the current army book has to offer. It’s very hard to assault Tau early on due to their defensive blocks and screens which are able to target your more important units and delay them. By having guns which decimate lighter targets and enough anti-infantry firepower to scare anything that pops out Tau are very hard to advance against and other than relying on their shooting have no “auto-lose” match-ups (for example on a bad shooting day Tau are going to suffer against Mech spam armies but IG have a much bigger midfield presence and can hope their shooting is much better later in game, etc.).

Overall Tau is one of the better armies in 5th though I eagerly await their new book whenever it comes out and hope GW doesn’t botch it too badly (from their latest 4 books I have high hopes for Tau). I hope people have walked away from these articles wanting to play Tau or at least understanding what they can do in 5th under a competent general. Overall I hope you enjoyed these articles and if you have any questions ask away.

Mech Training in relation to Ork Mech

Here is a simple ‘training.’ You can make this longer or simply do it with two, etc.

The first Rhino pops smoke and the other Rhinos get 3+ covers in the front arc or a 4+ at worst for the one on the right. The pred in the back also gets a 3+ cover in its front arc and can still fire its top gun whilst the Dread will get a 4+ cover and can still see. You then need to use board edges, terrain and rotate such a formation to get cover across all facings. When the front Rhino is destroyed it will still be able to provide cover through the Marines or by actually being a wreck. Ork Trukks shoot off the wazoo (Tau PF allow them to take out the first tank reliably and put a lot of hurt on the infantry and still give clear LoS to the next vehicles).

This is where fast armies like DE and Eldar have advantages because they make getting cover on the sides harder (you can rotate the Rhinos more to minimise the arc of 3+ cover but make getting into your side arc harder, etc.).

You can also use a bigger tank like a Land Raider to provide even better more reliable cover to small tanks like Rhinos. In this example as well Land Speeders can be used in place of smoke on the first turn as they move fast anyways or to protect flanks. Armies like Imperial Guard and Witchunters who’s commonly seen transports have guns on the top (i.e. Immolators & Chimers/Russes) can move in such a formation with continuous cover saves whilst still firing.

Again Orks can’t. The minute that first Trukk is gone, it’s gone and if your KFF Mek has been blocked or neutralised you’re going through terrain at some point or out in the open. And armies like Marines/IG/Sisters are happy in midfield if they do have to go through terrain, Orks aren’t. They are happy in combat against crappy combat units. Stranded in midfield is really bad for Orks and manageable for other armies.

2k Hybrid Calvary WIP

My Megaforce came in today so I’ve been busy spray painting and putting first loads of paint on my new tanks (btw if anyone would like to buy a Tac squad or Assault squad I have one of each up for sale which I don’t need from the box) so won’t be doing the Tau summary today. Rather I’ve been batting this idea around to see if I can make a Hybrid calvary list for SW. Let’s see what you think.

I obviously want to start out 3×3 TW units. I’ll keep them setup like I did before with a Thunderhammer and meltabomb. This clocks in at 185 per unit for 555. Trying to make this more wolfy I’ll run 3 Lone Wolves w/TDA, Chainfist, Storm Shield and 2x puppies. These are 105 each for 315. Lone Wolves are super survivable and can dish out some hurt to vehicles and MCs whilst the wolves up the overall number of attacks for hordes and provide some extra wounds.

I’m already at 870 points but have a good assault core but only have Troop and Heavy Support choices left for mech. I also need some ranged anti-tank to keep my oppnent’s head down so I’ll put in 3×5 LF units w/4 missiles each and a Rhino. These are 150 each for 450 each and give me three empty chasis’ so I’ll put two groups of IST x5 w/2meltaguns in there for 140 and 10 man GH w/2 meltaguns and MotW for 165. This leaves with the following:

LW w/TDA, SS, Chainfist, 2x Wolves

LW w/TDA, SS, Chainfist, 2x Wolves

LW w/TDA, SS, Chainfist, 2x Wolves

10x GH w/2 meltaguns, MotW

5x IST w/2meltaguns

5x IST w/2meltaguns

3x TW w/TH, meltabomb

3x TW w/TH, meltabomb

3x TW w/TH, meltabomb

5x LF w/4 ML, rhino

5x LF w/4 ML, rhino

5x LF w/4 ML, rhino

For 1620 points and I’m still short on HQ and Troops so going to be over looks like.

Let’s add two Rune Priests both with Chooser and Living Lightning and one with Saga of the Beastslayer/Tempest and the other with Murderous Hurricane. That’s 230 pts so we’ve only got 150 points left.

A full 10 man GH squad w/2 mguns, MotW and Rhino will put us 50 points over so let’s drop the wolves from the LW leaving us at 1990 but we’ve only got 4 vehicles. So let’s drop a LF pack and give a Rhino to the other GH squad we have giving us 125 points to play with.

I could take another small GH squad and use it as a bunker for my RP but I still think 5 vehicles isn’t enough saturation and my melta will be stranded midfield. So I’ll drop two of the LWs and add in two Rifleman dreads leaving me with 60 points with the following:

RP w/Saga of the Beastslayer, Living Lightning, Tempest, Chooser of the Slain

RP w/Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane, Chooser of the Slain

Dread w/2x TLAC

Dread w/2x TLAC

LW w/TDA, Chaintfist, SS

10x GH w/2mguns, MotW, Rhino

10x GH w/2mguns, MotW, Rhino

5x IST w/2mguns

5x IST w/2mguns

3x TW w/TH, mbombs

3x TW w/TH, mbombs

3x TW w/TH, mbombs

5x LF w/4 ML, rhino

5x LF w/4 ML, rhino

For 1940 points so I still have room to play but still not really happy with the list so am going to leave it for now and see what I can come up with but if anyone has some thoughts on it would love to hear them.

Email in: Another BoLS blunder…

This from GWvsJohn:

What a terrible, terrible article. Not only does he not put the MM/HF
speeder forth as a good one, he specifically says it’s bad. What
world does he live in where av10 moving 6″ isn’t instantly destroyed?

Have to agree with John here ^^ not to mention the bad article of jawaballs (back when it was posted a day or so earlier another blog had posted a proper analysis of Speeders vs Attack Bikes; can’t remember the blog…lol).

Essentially this article seems to be advocating double MM (uh why?) and from my skimming of the article doesn’t even mention MM/HF.

Let’s be blunt here. The Typhoon and MM/HF are the best Land Speeders out there. Next.

Email in: Roland’s 2k Wolves

Hey Kirb!
Seeing as we were discussing pieces of this on Vassal, I figured I’d just send the whole thing for you to take a gander at. Any commentary appreciated and if I’ll gladly explain my reasoning behind some of my choices!

~ Roland

Vayar Protectors of Miklaagaard VI


Master of Runes Odin
Rune Priest
Master of Runes (Living Lightning, Tempests Wrath)
Chooser of the Slain
Saga of the Beast Slayer
Total: 170

Lord Tyr
Wolf Lord
Wolf Claw
Belt of Russ
Saga of Warrior Born
Wolf Tail Talisman
Thunderwolf Mount
Total: 240


5X Wolf Scouts
Total: 125

Thor, The Lone Berserker, Seeker of Doom
Lone Wolf
Terminator Armor
1X Fenrisian Wolf
Total: 95

Baldr, The Lost Brother, He Who is Bound in Chains
Lone Wolf
Jormagundr (1X Fenrisian Wolf)
Total: 90


Emir’s Bane
10X GH
Total: 220

Masters of Roos Tertius
10X GH
Total: 230

Protectors of Byznum
10X GH
Total: 220

Protectors of The Citadel (Odin)
Total: 215

2X Speeders
Total: 180

1X Speeder
Total: 70


Long Fangs
5 LF
1 Pack
Total: 140

Total: 1995

Next email (I’ve got another one to get to but will do it tomorrow seeing as I’m tired at it’s late…). I’ll go through it unit by unit and see what we can come up with!

Rune Priest doesn’t need Master of the Runes. When you need to use Tempest, you need to use it and it outweighs Lightning. Whilst being able to shoot lightning the same turn you use Tempest is nice, it’s not worth 50 points. Otherwise drop the WTN and a good setup there.

You’re not getting a +1 attack with the wolf claw and for a few extra points you can get a 3++ (it’s the new black.) on your Lord. Follow up with dropping the WTN (you’re hitting on 3s most of the time, it’s not worth the points). With Warrior Born this unit has a big *hit me* sign and I think he really needs a unit to escort him in which you don’t really have… but you can run him behind your Rhinos and it can work in that regard just don’t send him off on his own until he racks up a kill total.

I don’t really like Wolf Scouts. I have an idea what we can do here but I’ll see if you have the points. LIking the Lone Wolves but give the second one TDA. It’s 5 pts essentially in this build and worth it. We may drop the puppies later but shall see how points go.

Now I think you have one too many GH squads so let’s drop the 9 man squad and certainly get rid of the PFist in the second squad (1-2A is not good). Personally I’m happy with just 10xGH and MotW as they shouldn’t really be slamming into heavy hitting squads anyways and being more of a melta delivery system but we’ll leave them there for the moment.

Now we’ve saved a few points so let’s see what we can do with your Heavy Support, that extra Elites slot and Fast Attack. We’ve got 800 points to play with and I think we need a delivery unit for the Wolf Lord. So let’s try an Iron Priest w/4x Cyberwolves, WTN and a TW mount. I’m not thrilled that it’s not a duplicated unit but in keeping with the theme Roland has we don’t want to make this a calvary hybrid list. We also need a unit for the RP so we’ll bring back the LF unit with 4 MLs and we shall have two of these. This leaves us 335 points. 2 Typhoons and 2 MM/HF later and we have 15 pts spare. So let’s drop the wolves from one of the Loners and add a LF w/ML to a squad and add a Banner leaving us with:

HQ –
RP w/Saga of the Beastslayer, CotS, LL, Tempest

WL w/TWM, Wolf Claw, SS, Warrior Born

Elites –
Iron Priest w/TWM, WTN, 4x cyberwolves



Troops –
10x GH w/Banner, PW, MotW, 2xmeltaguns, Rhino

10x GH w/PW, MotW, 2x meltaguns, Rhino

10x GH w/PW, MotW, 2x meltaguns, Rhino

Fast Attack –


2x LS w/MM/HF

Heavy Support –
5x LF w/4ML (RP goes here)

6x LF w/5ML

That gives you 2k points if I can add, 44 infantry, 7 vehicles and 6 beasts.

Still to your liking Roland (and cuddly?) and thoughts?

Armies in 5th: Tau Part 5: Markerlights & Commander

This is the final part before I do a summary post. I’ve also heard a couple of rumors running about that Tau could be re-done after the BA but shall see what happens…

The forums like to debate on the best way for makerlights. I will disabuse you. It’s pathfinders. They are easily the best buck per point for markerlights (plus give your FW a ride). You can argue all you’d like about Skyrays and Stealth suits or Marker Drones (which are too expensive) but Crisis Suits, Broadsides and Hammerheads are far, far too valuable to waste slots on markerlights (remember those units are the units that are most likely to utilise markerlights to help them).

8 pathfinders is ideal. This gives you on average 4 ML hits which allows you to raise BS to 5 and limit cover to 6+ for one squad or two squads to BS5 if the squad is in the open. So how to utilise markerlights? In the first couple of turns I prefer to use them on my Broadsides against mech or hybrid lists. This allows you to disable ranged anti-tank, fast melta or midfield transports (depending on list). Remember it’s better to shoot for weaker targets and get a higher ratio of a kill than shooting at a Land raider and do nothing. Later on I prefer to use them with my Crisis suits to damage the infantry which has made it to midfield or is threatening my defensive lines. Against non-mech or Deep Striking lists however Crisis suits usually get the markers from the get go.

Another good use for markerlights which no other army has is breaking up a mech train (I will do a post on this later). By stripping the manufactured cover the initial chasis relies on, the rest of the mech train is far more vulnerable to the rest of the Tau army’s shooting as it is generally stripped of cover (or at least cover is reduced to 4+ from 3+).

An army can of course operate without its markerlights (or not take any). However because they are a unit which draws so much attention and is so few points it is almost another turn of shooting for your tanks as your opponent focuses on taking out 8 infantry (which should be in cover, don’t be afraid to send them to ground either). However, the markerlights can really be a force multiplier as the game goes on so it can sometimes be worth it to hide them the first turn or two (put a tank in front of them) to maximise their usefulness with your suits.

So the final part of Tau, the commander. The commander for me generally runs as a support unit for my Broadsides or Pathfinders by giving them a higher Ld and extra wounds. Equip him with a target lock a missile pod and whatever else you’d like. A plasma gun is in keeping with the rest of the suits but I may often include a flamer as a simple tack-on for throw away situations but his primary use is extra wounds in whatever squad needs it most.

Anyways I believe that is the essentials for Tau as they currently stand. I still think the most important articles are 1, 2 & 3. I’ll write a summary post tomorrow if I have time but hope you’ve enjoyed them so far.

Reply out…

Comment found here. Rather than clog up comments I’m going to reply here to Shanvir.

As for your last point, I’m honestly intrigued. What metagame do you come from? I don’t mean this as an insult, I’ve played in two or three different parts of the US and what’s good and bad varies greatly depending on where you’re at (heck I’ve seen it change greatly just an hour or two drive away). The tactics you’re mentioning makes me wish I didn’t scare away the local Tau players (they played gunline footslogging…I wish they’d gone heavy mech and made it an interesting match like you’re discussing). Anyways I’m curious as to what metagame you’re from because I hardly see raveners (given what’s being played a lot here) as worthwhile (my second army is nids) while at the same time writing off nobs. Yes, they are expensive. But throw them in a battlewagon and they gain range and a bit of durability over bikers. A tad cheaper too given the number of bodies you can amass. Apologies if you thought I fielded nothing but boyz but with the warboss being both an incredible combat HQ and a way to field one of the nastiest melee squads in the game I find myself taking at least one nob squad in every list. It does cripple me a bit in single HQ games but they’re pretty rare anyways.

Firstly, there is no metagame. Everyone plays under the same rules and each codex is capable of making a balanced list which can take on any other list. Some books do this significantly better than others (i.e. Tau, SM/SW, DE, IG, Eldar over Orks, Daemons, CSM, Daemonhunters, Necrons). When you start changing your list to what other people play in your local “metagame” you’re tailoring. You should be able to take your list anywhere and win. So I play in the “metagame” of good armies.

Secondly, Nob Bikers suffer from egg basket syndrome and the Orks can’t put a good army around them. This leaves them open to blocking and feeding sac units. Nobs in BW need lots of upgrades to still be effective in combat and are still extremely vulnerable to shooting. They are certainly an upgrade on Boyz but the Nobs still don’t scare any true CC units.

I’m not quite sure what you mean about training. I don’t have a warseer account or anything but do you mean lining it up so the facing you’re looking at is completely obscured by another vehicle? In most cases its going to be some real interesting geometry to pull that off for two vehicles affecting each other. Do you have a diagram of it? It sounds quite interesting.

A trukk is roughly 80% of the length and about the same width as a battlewagon. While I rarely need it its not that terribly difficult to get cover to my wagon from a trukk. I do agree on the footprint of the wagons…I sometimes envy the people with the oldschool shoebox sized battlewagons. The area covered by their KFFs is huge.

I’ll see if I can make a picture model with Vassal or find a post on it from Stelek’s blog. I doubt people on Warseer know anything about this, they don’t listen. Essentially you use the initial chasis to completely block LoS to the armor facing of tanks behind. This gives it a 3+ save or requires you to move to a different facing. Utilising a few smokes or when you get good at it (see StJohn) 1 or 2 you can give your whole mech army at least a 4+ save and quite a few a 3+ save. Orks can’t do this and its still not easy to get Trukks to give 4+ cover saves to BWagons. Remember you have to cover 50% of the facing and because of it’s narrow width you need to cover the sides which Trukks against find difficult on BW.

The whole point of the big mek (and the reinforced rams tbh) is to try and help me ignore the table as much as possible. That’s mostly because I’m rather weak when it comes to initial setups regarding line of sight taking first turn shots but I’ve found the setup works quite well. There’s very few things that make me play a board full of terrain and a bare one differently…until my stuff is out of its transports. But that’s more about my personal failings as opposed to a failing of the army list.

Again with other mech though they don’t need to rely on outside help and rate of fire still really scares Trukks with or without cover. Even when one wrecks (and doesn’t explode) they provide cover for other vehicles. Trukks never do.

I’ve used lootas before to pad points in my list and I’ve experimented with a lot of different builds but I’m not quite 100% happy with any of them. Maybe you’re correct, maybe its just a bad list and I’m against a bunch of really bad players. But I think you’re overlooking a lot of things in your analysis.

Use lootas, they’re good against whatever you want. If the players you play against (present and past) used Tau gunlines I’d lean towards bad. In a direct matchup with other Mech or Hybrid style lists, Orks fail miserably. Even if my analysis is off on Trukks they still cannot reliably take out other Mech which still gives the advantage to other Mech lists.